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D&D 5E 20th level Sorcerer vs the world

Gammadoodler

Adventurer
Distant Empowered Freezing Sphere hits at 660ft x 2 (The Sorcerer and Simulacrum) + Celestials hits at 600ft.
It's instant death.
Is the Demigod and simulacrum on the field of battle now or still in their hidey hole?

Outside of that, freezing sphere does what 10d6, so 35 average damage on a failed save*2, we get 70 (empowered let's you reroll some of those dice, so we could call it maybe 90), and a max of 120 on 2 failed saves, against a 20th level d10 hit die character (call it 124 hp before con mod, race or feats). Death here is very unlikely.

Of course this is also assuming you choose the right point to target against a target that can hide at +17 and/or be anywhere between 0 (takeout movement), 70-90 (bonus action dash and movement) or 500 (tree stride) from the point of attack (could hide and do this last one).

Of course this also assumes 2 failed saves against 0 damage mitigation. And the Ranger has several options there as well depending on subclass.

And I'm ignoring the Avengers, they will either never be close enough, as the Ranger bonus action dashes, or they won't have a target (with their mighty +2 to perception), or they'll be dead from getting attacked with no ability to counterattack for awhile.

So, what happens after you and your simulacrum's blow a spell slot and 2 sorcery points to certainly fail to kill the ranger (and potentially to fail to even do any damage at all)?
 

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nogray

Explorer
It's the best class to manipule creatures. :giggle:
No; it's the best at lying to creatures. It's not the best at persuasion or intimidation. It is not even good at creating a disguise (that is a function of the Disguise Kit proficiency and is more likely to be intelligence or maybe wisdom than charisma. (Read up on disguise kits and deception. Deception allows you to act correctly when you are wearing a disguise, but the quality of the disguise is from how that was made (the kit that says that's what it's for).)

Resting on the top of Pegasus is really cool.
If by "really cool" you mean "probably impossible." There is no way that riding a pegasus could count as a restful circumstance. If it were a horse on the ground walking, I might allow it, but flying with wings is just never going to be a relaxing, restful experience.

The Sorcerer attacks at 660ft. It's out Celestial Range.
My celestials kill him quickly.

Now, the Wizard is dead.
The sorcerer's attack at 660 ft is the freezing sphere (possibly empowered). Since you didn't spend your action to start your turn to activate your daily Aasimar trait, the +20 damage is not active. Cast at spell slot level 6, the Empowered freezing sphere deals an expected value of (3.5*4 + 3 + 4*2 + 5*2 + 6) 41 damage. Call that 42.5 for other math-y reasons. It's cold damage with a Con save DC 18 for 1/2. One for you and one for your Sim (which depletes that slot permanently from the Sim, meaning you have to Wish - Simulacrum to have it again) makes the total 85 damage. Are you upcasting it?

(By the way, you really do need to pick whether you are somehow a Drow (probably against the rules, almost certainly improbable to arrange even if it were legal) or an Aasimar -- you only get to be one of them at a time.)

We deal 260 instant damage to 660ft damage. Well, the Wizard died.

I wished Celestial. Next turn. Sorcerer alpha strike. The Wizard is dead.
Your Celestials deal, on average, 18 damage on a hit, 25 on a crit, and 0 on a miss; they have 4 attacks at +10. Other characters tend to worry more about their AC than yours, so, it seems unlikely that the Celestials will hit with perfect reliability, especially at long range where disadvantage applies to all their attacks. The actual average expected damage is easy to calculate. Here is a table, including the level 9 and level 8 versions (since your Sim can only ever get a level 8 Celestial and I think that is one of the situations from the original post). For an AC of 16, the expected damage per round is only 40.6 per level 9 celestial. Still kind of likely to kill a wizard, especially after your spheres. But that does rather assume no protections are active.

Table of Expected damage vs. AC for long-range summon celestial attacks:
AC​
hit chance​
L9 dpa​
L9 dpr​
L8 dpa​
L8 dpr​
12​
0.9025​
16.2625​
65.05​
15.36​
61.44​
13​
0.81​
14.5975​
58.39​
13.7875​
55.15​
14​
0.7225​
13.0225​
52.09​
12.3​
49.2​
15​
0.64​
11.5375​
46.15​
10.8975​
43.59​
16​
0.5625​
10.1425​
40.57​
9.58​
38.32​
17​
0.49​
8.8375​
35.35​
8.3475​
33.39​
18​
0.4225​
7.6225​
30.49​
7.2​
28.8​
19​
0.36​
6.4975​
25.99​
6.1375​
24.55​
20​
0.3025​
5.4625​
21.85​
5.16​
20.64​
21​
0.25​
4.5175​
18.07​
4.2675​
17.07​
22​
0.2025​
3.6625​
14.65​
3.46​
13.84​
23​
0.16​
2.8975​
11.59​
2.7375​
10.95​
24​
0.1225​
2.2225​
8.89​
2.1​
8.4​
25​
0.09​
1.6375​
6.55​
1.5475​
6.19​
26​
0.0625​
1.1425​
4.57​
1.08​
4.32​
27​
0.04​
0.7375​
2.95​
0.6975​
2.79​
28​
0.0225​
0.4225​
1.69​
0.4​
1.6​
29​
0.01​
0.1975​
0.79​
0.1875​
0.75​
30​
0.0025​
0.0625​
0.25​
0.06​
0.24​
Simulacrum is a construct that has your statistic. It doesn't have any goal or personalities. No memories, nothing. It just obey verbal commands.
Umm . . . no. It knows what the target knew at the moment it was created and can learn nothing new. (That's why the Sorcerer's (probably rules-violating) DMM sim can never direct a summoned retriever to "retrieve" anyone that the real-live DMM didn't know. The retriever's quarry must be someone the retriever's master is "personally acquainted with," and since simulacra can not learn anything new, then the real-person being simulated must be personally acquainted with the target-to-be. If, per your interpretation, the DMMSim knew nothing, they could never send a retriever on a hunt.

2) When you turn a Simulacrum into a True Polymorph.
"If the spell becomes permanent, you no longer control the creature. It might remain friendly to you, depending on how you have treated it."
That is from the "object to creature" part of the spell, not the "creature to creature." The correct section of True Polymorph says that the creature retains its alignment and personality. The personality of a Sim includes the quirky little traits that it "is friendly to you and creatures you designate" and that it "obeys your spoken commands."

Wished, lose concentration (can't fly) and instant killed after it.
Oh, goody. Another f-ing wish. You must get like 17 of those each day.

The MMD Simulacrum's legendary action casts Hold Person. Good lucky.
The MMD SIm is probably not a legal thing.
On the likely illegality of the DMM sim:
While the Wish allows you to duplicate the effect of Simulacrum, thereby bypassing the material components and casting time of the Simulacrum spell, I am not sure that it allows you to change the effect of the spell, which reads (emphasis mine), "You shape an illusory duplicate of one beast or humanoid that is within range for the entire casting time of the spell." The range is "Touch." So, absent an actual DMM that is either willing or helpless, it seems like the DMM sim is impossible. If creating a sim of a humanoid that is not present is a legal use of the Wish-Simulacrum, then an opponent Wizard could just Wish --> Simulacrum for a sim of the Sorcerer ("the true leader of the magen and zombie army") and conduct an extensive interview of the sim for pointers on the defenses (layout and patterns).

Now Summon Retriver will find you.
Either the DMMSim doesn't know anything (your interpretation), and thus can't be familiar with a target, and thus can't designate a target for the retriever, or the DMMSim knows only what the DMM knew when it was (illegally) targeted by the Simulacrum spell, and thus can't learn about someone new (like the scrying wizard, or even someone the DMMSim actually meets in person), and thus can't become familiar with a target, and thus can't designate a target for the retriever. Either way, there is no legal way to make the retriever hunt someone that the actual DMM didn't know.
 

Galandris

Adventurer
"he asks the drow matron mother to cast her unique and non renewable Summon Retriever"

It beg to disagree, It's 1/day.

As was already pointed out, you decided to set the rule that rules as intended were superseding rules as written to negate two use of spells that reduced in HUN-HAT being killed by his own horde, back when he was in his fortress, based on a litteral, if cheesy, reading of the rules. If you decide to lift that rule, then prepare to have to face Wishes that duplicate spells effect and bypass all requirement of the spell, which where outlawed by YOUR RULE, rule which unfortunately made a simulacrum unable to regain any expandable resource. Make your mind, either HUN-HAT has lost way back in the thread, or DMM can't regain transient resources.
"who was clearly distinguished from his Simulacrum by the fact that the Scrying Locator was hovering over him, a telling glowing ball of light"

The incredible Alfred's plan failed here. Mind Blanked is immune to divination the Demigod and his Simulacrum (Twinned Mind Blank).

Mmm... You twinned Mind Blank only applies if you use Wish to duplicate Mind Blank. Therefore, as your only way out of the Demiplane of Basement, where you elected to go by your own decision, is to Wish for Planeshift, if you stipulate that the HUN-HAT never ever spend a day without twinning mind blank, then HUN-HAT effectivelly died BY HIS OWN, when he left for his Demiplane without any mean to get back. This is a defeat by every other possible build, including Commoner 1, because he effectively trapped himself forever in his own Demiplane. It was so ludicrous that I considered that HUN-HAT would see that he needed to stop wasting his daily Wish to duplicate Mind Blank in order to get back on the Prime Material, but you seem to want him to keep trying nonetheless to Mind Blank forever... He's INT 10, not 3, you know.... But well, if you insist on Mind Blank, then he lost by his own actions, effectively trapped forever. Still without leaving the comfort of his own home.


If you use Scrying, Sorcerer and Simulacrum are invisible (Mind Blank) to you.

And they cannot be affected by divination magic.

Poor Simulacrum, killed instantly with 1300 damage.

You do realize that if Scrying fails, as you wrongly suppose, there is no way for Alfred to realize DMM exists, which doesn't mean the Simulacrum is dead (which is of no importance, another one will be cast the next day) because he would never meet the DMM? Try to have some logical consistency in your story.

Spending years of glyph of warding. A sad story from Alfred.

Actually it's a few hours, over a week at most.



"Alfred's simulacrum would use his superior manoeuverability to fly around her and Feeblemind HUN-HAT (expanding his lone 8th level spell and possibly a second convergent future to ensure success). It could harm his move speed, but speed was only useful to split the group and at this point it was no longer needed (in the extraordinary event of a successful INT save) and potentially a third to ensure the failure of the counterspelling. With a CHA and INT of 1 for the next 30 days, he won't be a threat while Alfred's simulacrum kills him with cantrip through the bar of the forcecage."

Failed again, Mind Blank blocks Feeblemind.

You seem really keen to establish that HUN-HAT effectively removed himself from reality forever on his own by being unable to get back on the material plane. Alfred won without casting any spell.

New build

Rufus, Alfred's tabby cat.
Tiny beast, Unaligned
  • Armor Class 12
  • Hit Points 2 (1d4)
  • Speed 40 ft., climb 30 ft.
STR 3 (-4)
DEX 15 (+2)
CON 10 (+0)
INT 3 (-4)
WIS 12 (+1)
CHA 7 (-2)
  • Skills Perception +3, Stealth +4
  • Senses passive Perception 13
  • Challenge 0 (10 XP)
  • Keen Smell. The cat has advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on smell.

Rufus sleeps lazily in Alfred's cottage, a happy feline an prime tester of Rufus catnip raising experiments. One of the day he was by the chimney on his pillow, HUN-HAT trapped himself on a demiplane, removing himself forever from reality. He had accomplished the task Bastet had sent him in a dream of defeating HUN-HAT, without even moving a paw, and became, netting a CR20 experience reward of 25,000 xp, the first cat to advance to level 7 of an adventuring class in one go.

HUN-HAT, defeated by Rufus the tabby cat, without even moving from his pillow.
 

Galandris

Adventurer
Always readying actions? Well, aside from the fact that you can't ready actions outside of combat, this seems like something I can do, as well -- ready actions for when we teleport to you. See the stupid, and why the rules don't allow this?

They can't always be readying actions, since they are spending their action every round to search in every direction for invisible possible targets within search range and throwing enough dice to ensure success. So their action is used, not readied. I know you were not particularly worried, but I felt it was worth mentionning that readying actions to attack isn't consistent with the orders given so far to the magen horde.
 

Will you be able to do anything other than Clear DM fiat effects like Wish / Divine Intervention or Infinite loops?

There is no 'infinite loop'. It's a Cleric casting 2 spells (AMF and Temple of the Gods) and using a handful of class features.

And I don't need 'DM fiat.' Divine Intervention expressly allows me to ask for a single Cleric or Domain spell of up to 9th level (better than Wish, which you were using repeatedly to spam Simulacrums).

I can simply use Divine Intervention (auto succeeds at 20th level) and ask my Greater Deity to Gate you next to me in my enclosed Temple of the Gods on Celestia.

The Gate spell:

When you cast this spell, you can speak the name of a specific creature (a pseudonym, title, or nickname doesn’t work). If that creature is on a plane other than the one you are on, the portal opens in the named creature’s immediate vicinity and draws the creature through it to the nearest unoccupied space on your side of the portal. You gain no special power over the creature, and it is free to act as the DM deems appropriate. It might leave, attack you, or help you.

I could also always cast it myself as a 20th level Cleric of course.

No save, and you appear right next to me in Celestia. The beat down then commences, and I win.
 


Benjamin Olson

Adventurer
How to kill a "Demigod" in 10 easy steps:

Any build with Gate, Demiplane, Simulacrum, Dispel Magic, some form of divination magic that can be used on him, and Waterbreathing. Trivial to assemble for any level 17-up Wizard. Achievable as a specific build with a Bard or Arcana Cleric by level 18. Feats, ability, scores, race, etc. are irrelevant (though an acquatic or non-breathing race makes it even easier).

1. Make a proper Simulacrum of yourself using the actual spell (NOT an offbrand Wished Simulacrum, because it will need its 9th level spell slot). Explain to this Simulacrum that it has been created only too take out a single punk-ass Sorcerer who thinks he's a "demigod" and will likely not survive the process. If it is not killed by that soul crushing realization about the meaninglessness of its existence, proceed.

2. Scry on self-styled "demigod" every day, until it doesn't work. You now know he has used his Wish for Mindblank or some sort of planar travel, and is now without Wish, and hence half his bag of tricks.

3. Find a reasonably large body of water. Cast Waterbreathing on self and simulacrum and hop in.

4. Cast Demiplane on the floor of this body of water. A suitably flat surface may need to be added, magically or mundanely.

5. Open the door, filling the Demiplane with water. Send simulacrum inside.

6. Have Simulacrum cast Gate inside Demiplane. Simulacrum Gates purported demigod into the 30ft cube demiplane of water then immediately drops concentration on Gate.

7. You Dispel Demiplane using your own 9th level spell slot to avoid the ability check. (You could not do so before or wait for the door to close on its own because you want more water to flow in to replace any that pours out through the Gate portal, if your DM is willing to handwave this issue, then you can simplify this all quite a bit). You may want to throw up some sort of invisibility before the gating if you can't get an angle outside the Demiplane from which a Sorcerer coming through the portal can definitely not counterspell you.

8. Simulacrum and "Demigod" Sorcerer are now trapped together in a 30 foot cube of water, escapable only via planar travel. They have an epic underwater battle for the ages, the simulacrum able to cast underwater due to Waterbreathing the Sorcerer due to Subtle spell (though he is still handcapped from his usual strategies by not being able to use any other metamagic on anything with a vocal component). Ultimately the Sorcerer almost certainly prevails, if he hasn't lost all his HP to magen, as Sorcerers make better duelists and the simulacrum has only half a Wizard worth of HP. Alternatively, if you and your simulacrum know plane shift, he should probably just Plane Shift out of there.

9. After several minutes of savoring his victory (provided he has one), the putative "Demigod" drowns, wishing he wasn't so reliant on Wish for his utility spells.

10. Some other day, when you feel up to it, you open up the Demiplane again on dry land, let the water empty out, and see if the Demigod had any decent loot. You are most likely disappointed.

This is of course the overly elaborate version of this tactic to avoid any hiccups. Riskier variations are possible, with or without the use of a demiplane or simulacrum. Note that it is also premised on the theory that a created demiplane filled with water does not have an ethereal plane attached to it or that if it does that ethereal demiplane is also filled with water. If the DM has different planar theories you may need to add several additional layers of preparation, since the target is known to have etherealness capabilities.

Any "demigod" could, of course, render this and many other comparable Gate traps trivial to deal with by just learning the Plane Shift spell for real (rather than by relying on Wish for it), but somehow I don't think any of them will ever do that.
 


Galandris

Adventurer
There is no 'infinite loop'. It's a Cleric casting 2 spells (AMF and Temple of the Gods) and using a handful of class features.

And I don't need 'DM fiat.' Divine Intervention expressly allows me to ask for a single Cleric or Domain spell of up to 9th level (better than Wish, which you were using repeatedly to spam Simulacrums).

I can simply use Divine Intervention (auto succeeds at 20th level) and ask my Greater Deity to Gate you next to me in my enclosed Temple of the Gods on Celestia.

The Gate spell:



I could also always cast it myself as a 20th level Cleric of course.

No save, and you appear right next to me in Celestia. The beat down then commences, and I win.

Congratulations ! I might swipe some of your idea for an upcoming match.

@Galandris do you think Alfred would be willing to let Rufus adventure to Phandelver with my sons? They're 6 and 9 yo a fighter and an apprentice wizard they would appreciate such a companion

Of course! But Rufus is insisting on taking 16 short-rest a day for some reason. He's probably training to become a Sorcerer 20...
 


Zio_the_dark

The dark one :)
Epic
Binky is kind of miffed that he did not get invited to this party, but alas, he does have a new book to complete, the ladies of Candlekeep will not be kept waiting, after all.
You're right I feel ashamed to not have thought about Binky to tell the tales of my young adventurers (who BTW fed the three wolves in the hideout with goblins they killed from the entrance ^^ )
 



Hohige

Explorer
There is no 'infinite loop'. It's a Cleric casting 2 spells (AMF and Temple of the Gods) and using a handful of class features.

And I don't need 'DM fiat.' Divine Intervention expressly allows me to ask for a single Cleric or Domain spell of up to 9th level (better than Wish, which you were using repeatedly to spam Simulacrums).

I can simply use Divine Intervention (auto succeeds at 20th level) and ask my Greater Deity to Gate you next to me in my enclosed Temple of the Gods on Celestia.

The Gate spell:



I could also always cast it myself as a 20th level Cleric of course.

No save, and you appear right next to me in Celestia. The beat down then commences, and I win.

"And I don't need 'DM fiat.' Divine Intervention expressly allows me to ask for a single Cleric or Domain spell of up to 9th level (better than Wish, which you were using repeatedly to spam Simulacrums)."


I am laughing :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: . Do you read the same book as me?

"The DM chooses the Nature of the intervention;"
"The DM chooses the Nature of the intervention;"
"The DM chooses the Nature of the intervention;"
"The DM chooses the Nature of the intervention;"

Another clear problem, you do not know who your target is and what the name is.
It has failed countless times and that is clearly, more explicit is impossible, DM fiat.



Divine Intervention

Beginning at 10th level, you can call on your deity to intervene on your behalf when your need is great.

Imploring your deity's aid requires you to use your action. Describe the assistance you seek, and roll percentile dice. If you roll a number equal to or lower than your Cleric level, your deity intervenes. The DM chooses the Nature of the intervention; the Effect of any Cleric spell or Cleric domain spell would be appropriate. If your deity intervenes, you can't use this feature again for 7 days. Otherwise, you can use it again after you finish a Long Rest.

At 20th level, your call for intervention succeeds automatically, no roll required.
 

Hohige

Explorer
Is the Demigod and simulacrum on the field of battle now or still in their hidey hole?

Outside of that, freezing sphere does what 10d6, so 35 average damage on a failed save*2, we get 70 (empowered let's you reroll some of those dice, so we could call it maybe 90), and a max of 120 on 2 failed saves, against a 20th level d10 hit die character (call it 124 hp before con mod, race or feats). Death here is very unlikely.

Of course this is also assuming you choose the right point to target against a target that can hide at +17 and/or be anywhere between 0 (takeout movement), 70-90 (bonus action dash and movement) or 500 (tree stride) from the point of attack (could hide and do this last one).

Of course this also assumes 2 failed saves against 0 damage mitigation. And the Ranger has several options there as well depending on subclass.

And I'm ignoring the Avengers, they will either never be close enough, as the Ranger bonus action dashes, or they won't have a target (with their mighty +2 to perception), or they'll be dead from getting attacked with no ability to counterattack for awhile.

So, what happens after you and your simulacrum's blow a spell slot and 2 sorcery points to certainly fail to kill the ranger (and potentially to fail to even do any damage at all)?

The MMD simulacrum has +11 Perception +1d4 Guidannce each turn, Search Action every turn. You aren't hidden.
Ready Action for Celestials when you attack. When you attack, the reaction hits you.
Distant Empowered Freezing sphere at 660ft (out your range)+ Aasimar damage. It's 63 damage x 2. It's 126 damage. You can cast it until you are dead.

The Retriever will hunt you with 80ft speed (action and move). Stealth is useless here.
The range cannot fly, so you are not a threat.
 



Ovinomancer

No flips for you!
The MMD simulacrum has +11 Perception +1d4 Guidannce each turn, Search Action every turn. You aren't hidden.
You can't cast guidance and search on the same turn.
Ready Action for Celestials when you attack. When you attack, the reaction hits you.
You can't ready actions outside of initiative.
Distant Empowered Freezing sphere at 660ft (out your range)+ Aasimar damage. It's 63 damage x 2. It's 126 damage. You can cast it until you are dead.
Two turn prep or you're burning spell points to quicken. And, if you quicken, it's not subtle, or distant. In fact, it can't be both subtle and distant. Empower is the only thing on your "normal" list that works with others.

So, if the Sorcerer is casting without subtle all the time, we know who he is, right? So, then, no quickened spells or distant spells.

The Retriever will hunt you with 80ft speed (action and move). Stealth is useless here.
For, and pay attention, 10 minutes. And, you're not "personally acquainted" with any of the builds coming for you.
The range cannot fly, so you are not a threat.
Okay -- guys, the sorcerer is always hovering at over 600ft high. Do with this as you will, but he's never lower. However, this is a great relief to many people, as he's only got the one big attack a day that can reach that far. Pulls a lot of teeth, really. This is all good news.

And can't rest on a pegasus. (DM pwease?!)

And isn't in his fortress(es) because they don't fly that high.
 

Hohige

Explorer

No; it's the best at lying to creatures. It's not the best at persuasion or intimidation. It is not even good at creating a disguise (that is a function of the Disguise Kit proficiency and is more likely to be intelligence or maybe wisdom than charisma. (Read up on disguise kits and deception. Deception allows you to act correctly when you are wearing a disguise, but the quality of the disguise is from how that was made (the kit that says that's what it's for).)


If by "really cool" you mean "probably impossible." There is no way that riding a pegasus could count as a restful circumstance. If it were a horse on the ground walking, I might allow it, but flying with wings is just never going to be a relaxing, restful experience.


The sorcerer's attack at 660 ft is the freezing sphere (possibly empowered). Since you didn't spend your action to start your turn to activate your daily Aasimar trait, the +20 damage is not active. Cast at spell slot level 6, the Empowered freezing sphere deals an expected value of (3.5*4 + 3 + 4*2 + 5*2 + 6) 41 damage. Call that 42.5 for other math-y reasons. It's cold damage with a Con save DC 18 for 1/2. One for you and one for your Sim (which depletes that slot permanently from the Sim, meaning you have to Wish - Simulacrum to have it again) makes the total 85 damage. Are you upcasting it?

(By the way, you really do need to pick whether you are somehow a Drow (probably against the rules, almost certainly improbable to arrange even if it were legal) or an Aasimar -- you only get to be one of them at a time.)


Your Celestials deal, on average, 18 damage on a hit, 25 on a crit, and 0 on a miss; they have 4 attacks at +10. Other characters tend to worry more about their AC than yours, so, it seems unlikely that the Celestials will hit with perfect reliability, especially at long range where disadvantage applies to all their attacks. The actual average expected damage is easy to calculate. Here is a table, including the level 9 and level 8 versions (since your Sim can only ever get a level 8 Celestial and I think that is one of the situations from the original post). For an AC of 16, the expected damage per round is only 40.6 per level 9 celestial. Still kind of likely to kill a wizard, especially after your spheres. But that does rather assume no protections are active.

Table of Expected damage vs. AC for long-range summon celestial attacks:
AC​
hit chance​
L9 dpa​
L9 dpr​
L8 dpa​
L8 dpr​
12​
0.9025​
16.2625​
65.05​
15.36​
61.44​
13​
0.81​
14.5975​
58.39​
13.7875​
55.15​
14​
0.7225​
13.0225​
52.09​
12.3​
49.2​
15​
0.64​
11.5375​
46.15​
10.8975​
43.59​
16​
0.5625​
10.1425​
40.57​
9.58​
38.32​
17​
0.49​
8.8375​
35.35​
8.3475​
33.39​
18​
0.4225​
7.6225​
30.49​
7.2​
28.8​
19​
0.36​
6.4975​
25.99​
6.1375​
24.55​
20​
0.3025​
5.4625​
21.85​
5.16​
20.64​
21​
0.25​
4.5175​
18.07​
4.2675​
17.07​
22​
0.2025​
3.6625​
14.65​
3.46​
13.84​
23​
0.16​
2.8975​
11.59​
2.7375​
10.95​
24​
0.1225​
2.2225​
8.89​
2.1​
8.4​
25​
0.09​
1.6375​
6.55​
1.5475​
6.19​
26​
0.0625​
1.1425​
4.57​
1.08​
4.32​
27​
0.04​
0.7375​
2.95​
0.6975​
2.79​
28​
0.0225​
0.4225​
1.69​
0.4​
1.6​
29​
0.01​
0.1975​
0.79​
0.1875​
0.75​
30​
0.0025​
0.0625​
0.25​
0.06​
0.24​

Umm . . . no. It knows what the target knew at the moment it was created and can learn nothing new. (That's why the Sorcerer's (probably rules-violating) DMM sim can never direct a summoned retriever to "retrieve" anyone that the real-live DMM didn't know. The retriever's quarry must be someone the retriever's master is "personally acquainted with," and since simulacra can not learn anything new, then the real-person being simulated must be personally acquainted with the target-to-be. If, per your interpretation, the DMMSim knew nothing, they could never send a retriever on a hunt.


That is from the "object to creature" part of the spell, not the "creature to creature." The correct section of True Polymorph says that the creature retains its alignment and personality. The personality of a Sim includes the quirky little traits that it "is friendly to you and creatures you designate" and that it "obeys your spoken commands."


Oh, goody. Another f-ing wish. You must get like 17 of those each day.


The MMD SIm is probably not a legal thing.
On the likely illegality of the DMM sim:
While the Wish allows you to duplicate the effect of Simulacrum, thereby bypassing the material components and casting time of the Simulacrum spell, I am not sure that it allows you to change the effect of the spell, which reads (emphasis mine), "You shape an illusory duplicate of one beast or humanoid that is within range for the entire casting time of the spell." The range is "Touch." So, absent an actual DMM that is either willing or helpless, it seems like the DMM sim is impossible. If creating a sim of a humanoid that is not present is a legal use of the Wish-Simulacrum, then an opponent Wizard could just Wish --> Simulacrum for a sim of the Sorcerer ("the true leader of the magen and zombie army") and conduct an extensive interview of the sim for pointers on the defenses (layout and patterns).


Either the DMMSim doesn't know anything (your interpretation), and thus can't be familiar with a target, and thus can't designate a target for the retriever, or the DMMSim knows only what the DMM knew when it was (illegally) targeted by the Simulacrum spell, and thus can't learn about someone new (like the scrying wizard, or even someone the DMMSim actually meets in person), and thus can't become familiar with a target, and thus can't designate a target for the retriever. Either way, there is no legal way to make the retriever hunt someone that the actual DMM didn't know.

"If by "really cool" you mean "probably impossible." There is no way that riding a pegasus could count as a restful circumstance. If it were a horse on the ground walking, I might allow it, but flying with wings is just never going to be a relaxing, restful experience."

I did not know that it was not possible to rest on an airplane. Also, Galven Magen can hover. Just hold the demigod while hove. I prefer to rest on top of pegasus, because it's cool.

"The sorcerer's attack at 660 ft is the freezing sphere (possibly empowered). Since you didn't spend your action to start your turn to activate your daily Aasimar trait, the +20 damage is not active. Cast at spell slot level 6, the Empowered freezing sphere deals an expected value of (3.5*4 + 3 + 4*2 + 5*2 + 6) 41 damage. Call that 42.5 for other math-y reasons. It's cold damage with a Con save DC 18 for 1/2. One for you and one for your Sim (which depletes that slot permanently from the Sim, meaning you have to Wish - Simulacrum to have it again) makes the total 85 damage. Are you upcasting it?"

2 Celestial attack is insane + Sorcerer's spheres = One turn death.


"
The MMD SIm is probably not a legal thing.
On the likely illegality of the DMM sim:
While the Wish allows you to duplicate the effect of Simulacrum, thereby bypassing the material components and casting time of the Simulacrum spell, I am not sure that it allows you to change the effect of the spell, which reads (emphasis mine), "You shape an illusory duplicate of one beast or humanoid that is within range for the entire casting time of the spell." The range is "Touch." So, absent an actual DMM that is either willing or helpless, it seems like the DMM sim is impossible. If creating a sim of a humanoid that is not present is a legal use of the Wish-Simulacrum, then an opponent Wizard could just Wish --> Simulacrum for a sim of the Sorcerer ("the true leader of the magen and zombie army") and conduct an extensive interview of the sim for pointers on the defenses (layout and patterns).
"


It makes a lot of sense with Simulacrum spell that has 12 hours casting. But Wished Twinned Simulacrum is a single action.
 

Hohige

Explorer
You can't cast guidance and search on the same turn.

You can't ready actions outside of initiative.

Two turn prep or you're burning spell points to quicken. And, if you quicken, it's not subtle, or distant. In fact, it can't be both subtle and distant. Empower is the only thing on your "normal" list that works with others.

So, if the Sorcerer is casting without subtle all the time, we know who he is, right? So, then, no quickened spells or distant spells.


For, and pay attention, 10 minutes. And, you're not "personally acquainted" with any of the builds coming for you.

Okay -- guys, the sorcerer is always hovering at over 600ft high. Do with this as you will, but he's never lower. However, this is a great relief to many people, as he's only got the one big attack a day that can reach that far. Pulls a lot of teeth, really. This is all good news.

And can't rest on a pegasus. (DM pwease?!)

And isn't in his fortress(es) because they don't fly that high.
"You can't cast guidance and search on the same turn."

Guidance and Search actions are free, It doesn't care.

"You can't ready actions outside of initiative."

I strongly disagree

"Two turn prep or you're burning spell points to quicken. And, if you quicken, it's not subtle, or distant. In fact, it can't be both subtle and distant. Empower is the only thing on your "normal" list that works with others."

Instakill the enemy at 660ft is what we need.

"Okay -- guys, the sorcerer is always hovering at over 600ft high. Do with this as you will, but he's never lower. However, this is a great relief to many people, as he's only got the one big attack a day that can reach that far. Pulls a lot of teeth, really. This is all good news."

We can find you easily.
we are much more likely to find you than you cause a threat.

An army of zombies are on the ground with Inspire Leadership, destroying everything along the way, where are you going to hide?
 

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