D&D 5E 20th level Sorcerer vs the world

[Hohige]

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In many of the answers you postulate that the attacking wizard is dead, even when it's a simulacrum of his that leads the attack. This specific counter-attack will have to be established later, once all of the facts about the setup will have been clarified.



Granted, but discerning the location of the building where Hovering Target is dissimulated is still possible. There is no need to know the exact location of the target for some of the plans that have been proposed.

On the other hand, you earlier alluded that it was possible to attack the Sorcerer outside of his defenses constructed over many years. I am not sure it is already the case since you're bringing up Private Sanctum after Mighty Fortress and Temple of Gods. Because if the sorcerer is always inside a private sanctum, I'll call him the Hovering Holed Up Target : a 4th level spell slot, is needed to shroud a 100 feet long area for 24 hours. Even if the sorcerer uses all its 4th level and above spell slots on it, he gets 12 casting of it. He could also uses Sorcery Points to get more castings per day, but he'd use all his magical power to create a 5000 feet long (1.5 km) corridor every 24h. That's not a lot of distance covered each day for the ability to advance hidden at the cost of all the spellcasting ability. So, if this is the case, please confirm.

If this is not the case, there is no reason to assume the Wizard 20 will wait for the Sorcerer to be inside his Private Sanctum to engage his strike. He'll simply wait for the Hovering Holed Up Target to actually try do something useful and leave his Sanctum.

If you're trying to say that the Hovering Holed Up Target will sleep inside his Mighty Fortress or inside his Temple of the Gods just after having cast Private Sanctum, please clarify that as well.




I see that you are trying to use RAW against all common sense again. It is obvious that the intent of the spell isn't to prevent people for determining where to point their finger at... The area of the Meteor Swarm blast is 4 spheres of 40 ft radius. Even striking the sides of your private sanctum will be enough to reach most of your creatures as half the blast area will be inside your sanctum... including 40 feet toward the center of Sanctum, from each side. Even an even distribution of your Magen among the area will make you lose many of them on day one, without any possibilty of retaliation, as your magen army have their sight blocked across the boundary of the Private Sanctum, so they can't search for the invisible Wizard 20 simulacrum hovering in the sky above, even if they could somehow do that in the first place. Do you envision the Sorcerer sitting in the rather small "safe area" more than 40 ft from any border of the private sanctum inside the 100 ft square? Can we establish this as a fact as its your protection against Meteor Swarm Alpha Strike?

Plus, you might want to correct the spell known list in the original post, which doesn't feature Private Sanctum, unless you must establish that the Sorcerers Wishes for it every day as well?




Not really, as the Magen can't see outside of the Private Sanctum because someone cast this spell just so "the barrier of the warded area appears dark and foggy, preventing vision (including darkvision) through it." There is nearly no risk to wander outside the Private Sanctum as the Magens don't have any other sense than regular sight.

The Wizard does not know who his target is.
The Wizard cannot know where the Hidden Fortness is.
Meteor Swarm cannot affect any flying creatures.
You need "Ground you see" to cast Meteor Swarm, which means is useless.
Private Sanctum "So you could protect a cube that can be up to 200 feet on one side by using a spell slot of 5th Level."
This Wizard is nothing, just another victim that if the Sorcerer finds him, he will die like anyone else.
Everything failed for the Wizard, unfortunately.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Yes, It's a hidden place with Powerful permanent defensive spells ^^

I mean if we get a prep phase that lasts from the moment our character has been able to cast the necessary spells to prepare, then our wizard has been able to cast glyph of warding since level 5. What does our demigod's world look like with 16 levels worth of glyphs (which can be upcast all the way to lvl 9) all over it, keeping in mind his glyph output doubles at lvl 12 when he gets simulacrum). And then keeping in mind that he's been able to have guards and wards up since level 11, a mighty fortress up since lvl 15.

Your demigod would need to cast temple of the gods just to find a place left in the world where it could stand.

Note: Even assuming both characters started newlyborn at lvl 20, the wizard has finished his permanent fortifications in year 1, while the demigod has 2 years to go.

 

[Hohige]

I mean if we get a prep phase that lasts from the moment our character has been able to cast the necessary spells to prepare, then our wizard has been able to cast glyph of warding since level 5. What does our demigod's world look like with 16 levels worth of glyphs (which can be upcast all the way to lvl 9) all over it keeping in mind his glyph output doubles at lvl 12 when he gets simulacrum). And then keeping in mind that he's been able to have guards and wards up since level 11, a mighty fortress up since lvl 15.

Your demigod would need to cast temple of the gods just to find a place left in the world where it could stand.

Glyphs of Warding (200 gold each casting). It's a lot.
The Celestials destroy every object and creature (It's explained on first post).
Also, Glyph of Warding doesn't affect flying creatures

 

[Ovinomancer]

Glyphs of Warding (200 gold each casting). It's a lot.
The Celestials destroy every object and creature (It's explained on first post).
Also, Glyph of Warding doesn't affect flying creatures

The Celestials don't, because they have to be within Seeming range of you, and you don't leave your basement, er, bunker, er, whichever spell you've come up with now.

 

[Zio_the_dark]

The Celestials don't, because they have to be within Seeming range of you, and you don't leave your basement, er, bunker, er, whichever spell you've come up with now.

A flying fortress?

 

[Hohige]

The Celestials don't, because they have to be within Seeming range of you, and you don't leave your basement, er, bunker, er, whichever spell you've come up with now.

The Celestials don't, because they have to be within Seeming range of you, and you don't leave your basement, er, bunker, er, whichever spell you've come up with now.

What?

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

The Wizard does not know who his target is.

He doesn't need to. I suppose the goal to defeat to the sorcerer include at least the idea the the Hovering Holed Up Target exist, or are you saying the the Wizard can't defeat any level 1 commoner simply because they don't care enough to even hear of them?

The Wizard cannot know where the Hidden Fortness is.

You didn't clarify your use of the Private Sanctum. If it is only when Target is sleeping, then there is nothing that prevent Scrying (Scry doesn't need to know the scried party, it's possible to scry having only heard of the target, it only increases the DC of the Wisdom saving throw by 5) and, given enough time, of which we don't lack, at some point the Scrying will get cast when the sorcerer is entering of leaving his sanctum. Then, the Wizard will have seen the place, which is enough for the spells discussed upthread.

Meteor Swarm cannot affect any flying creatures.

It can, unless they are flying above 40 ft all the time. It's because you established that you were flying all the time that we had to discuss the sleeping habits and you elaborated that your Holed Up Target never leave his Sanctum.

You need "Ground you see" to attack, which means that you cannot attack.

You can always see just outside the foggied area. The sphere is centered on the ground you see, but doesn't vanish above the ground you can't see. The exact wording is : "Blazing orbs of fire plummet to the ground at four different points you can see within range. Each creature in a 40-foot-radius sphere centered on each point you choose must make a Dexterity saving throw." The sphere is centered on a point you can see (just outside the border of the Private Sanctum) and extend inside it. Can I understand your answer as confirming that you establish that you are never ever leaving not only the Private Sanctum but the area of the Private Sanctum closer to the border of the Sanctum than 40 feet)? That's what, 20ft by 20ft? It's even less than mum's basement, especially to fit two large creatures, the Sorcerer, his Simulacrum and 60 magen.

[If anyone can do the math by head to calculate the exact area, I'd be interested to know the exact living area of Holed Up Target].

Private Sanctum "So you could protect a cube that can be up to 200 feet on one side by using a spell slot of 5th Level."

As you'd need to expand on both dimensions to be sure you are farther than 40ft feet and keep some breathing space, you'd need to upcast Private Sanctum at least to 6th level. As you have to Wish for it (Private Sanctum isn't on your known spell list) and wishing for an upcast version of a spell effect, while very reasonable, isn't RAW and is disqualified on the ground of "no DM help me" rule your instated. However, given the sore state fo the life of the Holed Up Target, I petition your DM for leniency so he could allow your 200x200ft Private Sanctum to be created at the expense of your daily 9th level slot.

This Wizard is nothing, just another victim that if the Sorcerer finds him, he will die like anyone else.

If... your Sorcerer seems very ill-armed to mount a counter-attack as most of his limited spellcasting repertoire consists of preparing to survive (just look at how much the poor sod need to do to avoid just the DAY 1 strategy, the Meteor Swarm Alpha Strike led by a Simulacrum)... He has no information gathering spells and nor ability to travel to the place from where the wizard is planning the attacks.

Everything failed for the Wizard, unfortunately.

So far, he hasn't really started. You just elaborated some facts on the daily routing of the Holed Up Target that we needed to know to present a strategy. Before you established those fact, we couldn't know that your Sorceror is never leaving his 200 by 200 ft Private Sanctum, countaining the Magen retinue that can't see outside as well, and hovering above 40 ft above the ground all day inside his Sanctum, and that the Sorcerer is spending his daily 9th level slot to get said Sanctum! And that's just a few fact that were established when we discussed the possibilty of Meteor Swarm. (TBH, on Day 1, the Wizard could still do a Meteor Swarm Alpha Strike led by the Simulacrum, because it's fun to cast Meteor Swarm and he could wipe a few Magen [after all, he can't be certain that they are all holed up in the center area of the Private Sanctum, so let's be sure and meter to death a few Magen just in case. I grant you that your preparations will get him NO MAGEN DOWN, but he has a closer idea of how the Holed Up Target is behaving. The Holed Up Target only gets the information that someone, somewhere, is out to get him.

 

[Zio_the_dark]

It seems @Ovinomancer just need to tap his wizard to turn you into a sheep...

Here's the proof

Edit: this is WotC material and RAW no DM fiat

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

Glyphs of Warding (200 gold each casting). It's a lot.
The Celestials destroy every object and creature (It's explained on first post).
Also, Glyph of Warding doesn't affect flying creatures

Err... "You decide what triggers the glyph when you cast the spell. For glyphs inscribed on a surface, the most typical triggers include touching or standing on the glyph, removing another object covering the glyph, approaching within a certain distance of the glyph, or manipulating the object on which the glyph is inscribed. For glyphs inscribed within an object, the most Common triggers include opening that object, approaching within a certain distance of the object, or seeing or reading the glyph. Once a glyph is triggered, this spell ends."

There is nothing in the rules that tells that Glyph of Warding doesn't affect flying creatures. The word flying is absent from the spell description. Chosing a trigger of "any creature approaching within a certain distance of the glyph" doesn't imply the exclusing of flying creature. Flying means "moving or capable of moving through the air", it doesn't mean immune to spells one doesn't like.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Glyphs of Warding (200 gold each casting). It's a lot.
The Celestials destroy every object and creature (It's explained on first post).
Also, Glyph of Warding doesn't affect flying creatures

So all you have to do to survive is either:
a. Never touch the ground until
b. Your celestial has destroyed every object on the it and the ground itself?

Yes this sounds like a winning plan.

Note: this is assuming you're understanding of the rules for the spell, which seems...dubious