D&D (2024) 4/26 Playtest: The Fighter

[Vaalingrade]

But you don't have people physically attacking love as a concept or turning into the essence of strength.

You do when the devs are allowed to use imagination.

So yes, admittedly not in D&D right now.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Hollywood fighters have more options by far. Heck, sitcom side character bouncers can still grab two people by the head and konk their heads together, or use a kick to send someone flying and prone in a single move.

D&D martial characters are some of the most limited in media.

Not really disagreeing with you. However, given the public playtest format and the conservatism it produces, I do not see that changing anytime soon. At least not from WoTC.
What is really needed is that one or more of the third party 5e clone will be brave in that arena and the mythical/folklore/anime figher will gain some popular traction.
One of the best possible outcomes of the OGL affair and the placing of the SRD in the CC is that we may see some mechanical innovation in the third-party space and that will feed back into the main game.
I think that the latter element is important since I think that the official game will always dominate.

 

[Incenjucar]

Forcing WotC to copy the competition to keep up is unfortunately the most likely solution to a lot of concerns with the game.

 

[Asisreo]

You can have internal logic for people going beyond the regular limits of physical strength, speed, and constitution. You just have to be open to the concept in the first place.

Again, I'm fine with epic fighters doing things people can't do but it doesn't have to be "oh, well he can cleave a tree from a distance, so it makes sense that he can also cleave through the concept of having enemies and therefore he can no longer have enemies."

People are attributing ideas that I don't believe as counter-arguments. I've said from the beginning that there's a clear line between fantastic and nonsense.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Except that line isn't actually clear. It's just clear to you from your perspective.

 

[Incenjucar]

By 20th level, fighters should be using magic or exotic items because regular equipment is too fragile to survive their skill and power.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Gonna

SSS = Society for Spellcaster Supremacy. Don't worry it's just a bad joke, then again one never knows where they will turn up. Well actually we do, whenever it appears that martials may get nice things or to kill off discussion about the martial plight.

ah yes, anyone who doesn’t want martial characters to be magical…oh wait no both sides of this argument don’t want that!

Hmmmm…maybe the solution is to belittle the other side!

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

But you have to consider not everyone has the same ideas of "fun" and "cool." Actually, I'd be fine if the nonsensical abilities were optional and could be added into the base game but having them be the default kills the whole vibe.

Again, nonsensical in the fact that players are affecting abstract ideas as if they were physical or having huge logical holes even on a surface level parse.

Maybe it's time to design classes for the people who want to play them, rather than letting the person who isn't playing the character dictate what they think someone else's character should do? It's a game of heroic make believe that you guys decide should only cater to one type of power fantasy.

Fighters continue to suck because any improvements to them are subject to veto by caster players and old school D&D players who have been conditioned since the 70's that fighters are the henchmen to your wizard main character. Gygax even said that serious players will pick magic users once they understood the game, so this nonsense was by design. D&D has cultivated a legacy of caster supremacy because anyone who wanted a decent martial eventually just played a different game, stopped playing a second fiddle character, or decided they didn't care and settled for scraps.

 

[Incenjucar]

And, again, for the thousandth time, they can always have both a power fantasy fighter and a sidekick fighter. There is no law preventing WotC from catering to both.

 

[Asisreo]

Maybe it's time to design classes for the people who want to play them, rather than letting the guy who isn't playing the character dictate what they think someone else's character should do? It's a game of heroic make believe that you guys decide should only cater to one type of power fantasy.

You say this like I don't play martials, but I play martials more than the other classes. I just think that we can achieve a balance without swinging to the side of absurdity.

I also find it a little ironic that there are people who are okay with discarding the fantasy of others because theirs are "lame" but are offended when asked to set aside their own fantasy.

Because, honestly, if all characters were magical and cast spells, I wouldn't have a problem with it whatsoever. But because they wouldn't be able to play their nonmagical martial (without reflavoring because they can reflavor spells to be nonmagical), they shut that idea down.

Even though that idea aligns far more with what even WoTC would likely want and is probably being held back because that's what they've been doing. Look back at 5e. I dare you to name a single class that doesn't have native ability to cast magic either within their base class or subclass.