Incenjucar
Legend
Batman is non-magical. Sherlock Holmes is non-magical. They are both shown to do impossible things on a regular basis.
D&D (2024) 4/26 Playtest: The Fighter
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Remathilis
Legend
Ok. A fighter trains for hours a day until they are peak fitness. Maybe even slightly better. What is that worth? He might be able to jump father, but are we jumping miles? We might lift large boulders, but are we toppling mountains? We might kick down a steel door, but are we flipping the Tomb of Horrors upside down?
Again, if the origins fit the powerset, I'm ok. But I keep getting "Taran was a level 1 pig farmer, but 15 levels of adventures later, he wins staring contests with the Sun".
Neonchameleon
Legend
Explain why you think that Boromir is a 20th level fighter not a 5th level or so one and we'll talk.
And I'm asking for a narrative reason why you think that a world in which magic works must have the same physical limitations as this universe.
I will accept that fighters should be bound by the limits of real world fighters (which are higher than D&D fighters, but never mind) when you start arguing for wizards to be bound by the same limitations as real world stage conjurers. This isn't the real world and the world works in a way that allows that. Your question is therefore asked and answered.
And so far I've heard no fictional reason they shouldn't except "My versimilitude" and "My imagination is too limited to imagine worlds can have their own rules".
Edit: And of course no one is saying that the fighter should do exactly the same things as the wizard. Just that if levels are meaningful as a measure of anything then a 20th level fighter should be 20th level.
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Neonchameleon
Legend
A fighter in a non-magical world trains for hours and it's worth something. What is it worth if a wizard in a non-magical world trains for hours a day? That they get to do slightly better card tricks?
We might be able to pull rabbits out of hats, but are we flying or creating walls of stone?
The origin is the fighter lives in a magical world where levels are a thing and you gain in power as you level up. In a non-magical world Taran wouldn't be able to have 15 levels of adventure, end of story. And even in a magical world without levels the wizard wouldn't be able to have 15 levels of adventure.
Zubatcarteira
Now you're infected by the Musical Doodle
The Fighter in 5e is definitely magical in many ways, it's just the system in general doing it, not the Fighter class, like being super durable, damaging very durable things, healing very fast, and being able to grapple a Rhinocerous in place at level 1 with a single hand. You could add more stuff to any given class and it wouldn't be out of place.
It's magic like super big creatures flying with way too small wings, just how their world works. The game already treats it differently from spells and such.
It's magic like super big creatures flying with way too small wings, just how their world works. The game already treats it differently from spells and such.
Vaalingrade
Legend
At least. At very least, a basic level 1 fighter should be able to approach this guy:
en.wikipedia.org
Jack LaLanne - Wikipedia
Remathilis
Legend
Batman can't fight Superman toe to toe without armor, Kryptonite or both. He has tools and technology that gives him an edge, but most of it ends up on par with "has a bunch of magic items that make him better". But people want Batman to be as powerful naturally as Superman. And they want it to be because Batman stopped enough crime that he gained that power.
Hmm. Maybe a fighter should gain special gear as they level that makes them able to do that kind of things. They don't fly, they get special cape gliders. They have customized armor, smoke bombs, putty arrows, grappling guns, anti-shark repellent. All those wonderful toys.
"What's your super power?"
"I'm rich."
Incenjucar
Legend
Don't read comics much? Batman certainly needs tools to deal with God-tier threats, but he can be buck naked and still do impossible things and defeat absurd opponents.
Zubatcarteira
Now you're infected by the Musical Doodle
A favorite of mine when he kicks a motorcycle in half:
Azzy
ᚳᚣᚾᛖᚹᚢᛚᚠ (He/Him)
They eat the hearts of the (hopefully non-sapient) creatures they kill, gaining power as they do. They apprentice to a nigh-immortal legendary sword (or whatever) master. They align their chakras through comptemplation and meditation. The gods notice them and grant them the ability to surpass mortal limitations. The become more and more imbued with the latent mystical energies that suffuse their magical world. There are a lot ᚾᚪᚢᚷᚻᛏᚣ ᚹᚩᚱᛞ reasons, you just have to be creative.
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