D&D 4E [4e] A slim(er) 4e experience through class and options cutting

[Tony Vargas]

For that matter, I like HotFW a lot, go with the Witch as the controllery caster.

Hands down the best of 'Heroes of _____' series.

You can then use the Sorcerer as the blaster caster, and ditch the straight up wizard.

Better yet, the Elemental Sorcerer from HotEC

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Hands down the best of 'Heroes of _____' series.

Better yet, the Elemental Sorcerer from HotEC

Possibly the finest RPG supplement of all time. Certainly in the top 10!

 

[Joshua Randall]

I don't put as much systematic thought into it, but I routinely restrict what classes and races I allow in my games.

My current game's lists are as follows (in spoiler blocks because of how long they are). Why the restriction? Well, some was to get the feel I was going for and some was admittedly just 'cause I'm ornery after 10 years of DMing 4e.

The players occasionally complain but they have also admitted that it makes character building simpler because they are forced to be more focused. Which I consider an intended consequence.

[sblock=Classes Allowed]
Class Source Allowed? Comments
Ardent Player's Handbook 3 NO no psionics
Artificer Eberron Player's Guide NO does not fit tone of campaign (too Steampunk-y)
Assassin Dragon Magazine 379 NO does not fit tone of campaign
Assassin (Executioner) Heroes of Shadow NO does not fit tone of campaign
Avenger Player's Handbook 2 yes this class will receive extra scrutiny to prevent abuse
Barbarian Player's Handbook 2 yes
Barbarian (Berserker) Heroes of the Feywild yes unclear how effective this class is, in practice
Bard Player's Handbook 2 yes mechanics are fine, but typical effete D&D bard is not - work with me
Bard (Skald) Heroes of the Feywild yes mechanics are fine, but typical effete D&D bard is not - work with me
Battlemind Player's Handbook 3 NO no psionics
Cleric (Templar) Multiple Sources yes
Cleric (Warpriest) Heroes of the Fallen Lands yes
Druid Player's Handbook 2 yes DM and player will work together to determine place in game
Druid (Protector) Heroes of the Feywild yes DM and player will work together to determine place in game
Druid (Sentinel) Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms yes DM and player will work together to determine place in game
Fighter (Knight) Heroes of the Fallen Lands yes remember that gimmick Charge builds are NOT allowed
Fighter (Slayer) Heroes of the Fallen Lands yes remember that gimmick Charge builds are NOT allowed
Fighter (Weaponmaster) Multiple Sources yes
Hybrids Player's Handbook 3, etc. NO prefer strongly archetypcal characters rather than hodgepodges
Invoker Player's Handbook 2 yes
Monk Player's Handbook 3 NO does not fit tone of campaign, and too fiddly
Paladin Player's Handbook yes
Paladin (Blackguard) Heroes of Shadow NO does not fit tone of campaign
Paladin (Cavalier) Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms NO no pets
Psion Player's Handbook 3 NO no psionics
Ranger Player's Handbook yes
Ranger (Hunter) Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms yes
Ranger (Scout) Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms yes
Rogue (Scoundrel) Multiple Sources yes
Rogue (Thief) Heroes of the Fallen Lands yes remember that gimmick Charge builds are NOT allowed
Runepriest Player's Handbook 3 yes
Seeker Player's Handbook 3 NO does not fit tone of campaign
Shaman Player's Handbook 2 NO no pets
Sorcerer Player's Handbook 2 yes
Sorcerer (Elementalist) Heroes of the Elemental Chaos yes this class will receive extra scrutiny to prevent abuse
Swordmage Forgotten Realms Player's Guide yes
Vampire Heroes of Shadow NO does not fit tone of campaign
Warden Player's Handbook 2 yes DM and player will work together to determine place in game
Warlock Multiple Sources yes
Warlock (Binder) Heroes of Shadow NO mechanically terrible
Warlock (Hexblade) Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms NO no pets
Warlord (Marshal) Multiple Sources yes
Wizard (Arcanist) Multiple Sources yes
Wizard (Bladesinger) Neverwinter Campaign Setting yes this class will receive extra scrutiny to prevent abuse
Wizard (Mage) Heroes of the Fallen Lands yes this class will receive extra scrutiny to prevent abuse
Wizard (Sha’ir) Heroes of the Elemental Chaos NO does not fit tone of campaign, and mechanically terrible
Wizard (Witch) Heroes of the Feywild NO does not fit tone of campaign, and mechanically terrible[/sblock]

[sblock=Races Allowed]
Race Source Allowed? Comments
Bladeling Dragon Magazine 419, Manual of the Planes yes
Bozak Draconian Dragon Magazine 421 NO does not fit tone of campaign
Bugbear Monster Manual NO oversized weapons create too many rules problems
Bullywug Monster Manual 2 NO does not fit tone of campaign
Changeling Eberron Player's Guide NO rules and role-playing nightmare
Deva Player's Handbook 2 yes
Dragonborn Player's Handbook yes Dragonfear racial power is NOT allowed
Drow Forgotten Realms Player's Guide yes
Duergar Monster Manual 2 NO does not fit tone of campaign
Dwarf Player's Handbook yes
Eladrin Player's Handbook yes
Elf Player's Handbook yes
Genasi Forgotten Realms Player's Guide yes
Githyanki Monster Manual yes have a specific niche within the story - work with me
Githzerai Player's Handbook 3 yes
Gnoll Dragon Magazine 367 NO prefer to avoid monstrous races
Gnome Player's Handbook 2 NO DM intensely dislikes this race
Goblin Monster Manual, Into the Unknown: The Dungeon Survival Handbook NO does not fit tone of campaign
Gold Dwarf Neverwinter Campaign Setting yes
Goliath Player's Handbook 2 yes
Half-Elf Player's Handbook yes
Halfling Player's Handbook NO DM intensely dislikes this race
Half-Orc Player's Handbook 2 yes remember that gimmick Charge builds are NOT allowed
Hamadryad Heroes of the Feywild NO does not fit tone of campaign (too twee)
Hengeyokai Dragon Magazine 404 NO does not fit tone of campaign (too twee)
Hobgoblin Dragon Magazine 419, Monster Manual yes this race will receive extra scrutiny to prevent abuse
Human Player's Handbook yes
Kalashtar Eberron Player's Guide NO does not fit tone of campaign
Kapak Draconian Dragon Magazine 421 NO does not fit tone of campaign
Kenku Dragon Magazine 411, Monster Manual 2 NO does not fit tone of campaign
Kobold Monster Manual, Into the Unknown: The Dungeon Survival Handbook NO does not fit tone of campaign
Llewyrr Elf Dragon Magazine 405 yes
Longtooth Shifter Player's Handbook 2 NO does not fit tone of campaign
Minotaur Player's Handbook 3 yes
Moon Elf (Eladrin) Neverwinter Campaign Setting yes
Mul Dark Sun Campaign Setting yes this race will receive extra scrutiny to prevent abuse
Orc Monster Manual yes remember that gimmick Charge builds are NOT allowed
Pixie Heroes of the Feywild NO DM intensely dislikes this race
Razorclaw Shifter Player's Handbook 2 NO does not fit tone of campaign
Revenant Multiple Sources NO does not fit tone of campaign
Satyr Heroes of the Feywild NO does not fit tone of campaign
Shadar-kai Dragon Magazine 372 NO does not fit tone of campaign
Shade Heroes of Shadow NO does not fit tone of campaign
Shardmind Player's Handbook 3 NO does not fit tone of campaign
Shield Dwarf Neverwinter Campaign Setting yes
Sun Elf (Eladrin) Neverwinter Campaign Setting yes
Svirfneblin Into the Unknown: The Dungeon Survival Handbook NO DM intensely dislikes this race
Thri-Kreen Dark Sun Campaign Setting NO prefer to avoid monstrous races (and Russ isn't playing)
Tiefling Player's Handbook yes don't make me regret this, again
Tinker Gnome Dragon Magazine 422 NO DM intensely dislikes this race
Vryloka Heroes of Shadow NO does not fit tone of campaign
Warforged Eberron Player's Guide NO does not fit tone of campaign
Wild Elf Neverwinter Campaign Setting yes
Wilden Player's Handbook 3 NO does not fit tone of campaign
Wood Elf Neverwinter Campaign Setting yes [/sblock]

 

[Jhaelen]

I don't put as much systematic thought into it, but I routinely restrict what classes and races I allow in my games.

Now that you mention it, so do I!
If I'm designing a homebrew setting, I typically try to focus on just a few key races, ideally some that are often under-represented in other settings. E.g. in my D&D 3e Blackmoor campaign, I took some inspiration from the Werewolf RPG and used different types of lycanthropes as the mainstay. I also assigned a preferred class to each changing breed. I also banned the small standard races (halflings, gnomes), although that was mostly for mechanical reasons.

I opened up the game as the campaign continued, though. Part of the reason being that I figured players joining the campaign at high levels could have characters from different planes of existence.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Huh, I might PROPOSE lists of what I consider appropriate builds for specific milieu (IE if you want to do Arthurian Knights for instance). I wouldn't consider it to be my business to TELL the players what they MUST play.

 

[pemerton]

Saw the STR half off of the Paladin and the STR half off of the cleric, and make that one class, call it 'paladin', and glue the other two halves together and call it 'cleric'. Much clearer, covers the same ground, etc.

I don't really agree with this vis-a-vis the WIS cleric and CHA paladin - I understand the CHA paladin (its Galahad) but not the WIS cleric (it's an invoker variant, which is in turn a wizard variant).

But I fully agree about STR paladin and STR cleric. Just like the cleric and paladin back in AD&D, they're the same archetype (heavily armed and armoured holy warrior) just with slightly different mechanical implementations. The difference between Healing Word and Lay on Hands matters a lot in the minutiae of play, but isn't any sort of archetypical difference.

 

[Garthanos]

I don't really agree with this vis-a-vis the WIS cleric and CHA paladin - I understand the CHA paladin (its Galahad) but not the WIS cleric (it's an invoker variant, which is in turn a wizard variant).

But I fully agree about STR paladin and STR cleric. Just like the cleric and paladin back in AD&D, they're the same archetype (heavily armed and armoured holy warrior) just with slightly different mechanical implementations. The difference between Healing Word and Lay on Hands matters a lot in the minutiae of play, but isn't any sort of archetypical difference.

There was a role difference both in play and in story between the Cleric and Paladin...

In story the oath bound champion had actual legend and myth backing it from multiple sources (although the myth of course also had with various style miraculous effects which werent always even healing. ). In function his role was still primarily as a fighter/defender or even striker.

Where as the Cleric was given the full miracle set of the unarmored primarily healer priesthood also from a specific mythology. That role you must be a healer was strong with this one.

 

[MoutonRustique]

To make the [hexblade] more "fighter-mage", I was thinking of giving it the [bladesigner's] bladespells - would simply removing the "striker damage buff" from the [hexblade] keep things ~kinda even ?

I mean the damage amount is basically the same, there is some important gains in terms of control... Perhaps with a small re-tooling of the stronger bladespells :

knock prone = pull 3
slide 3 = push 2
-2 to attack rolls = -2 to attack you
damage if move = if they hit you before eont, they take the damage again
slow = suffer extra damage when next hit before eont

I'm also wondering what I could trade for the [pact boon] - I'm looking to see if I can take the class away from the [pact] aspect, and that power is fairly evocative. It could always be refluffed as energy draining of some kind, but that doesn't feel very "fighter-mage" to me...

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I don't really agree with this vis-a-vis the WIS cleric and CHA paladin - I understand the CHA paladin (its Galahad) but not the WIS cleric (it's an invoker variant, which is in turn a wizard variant).

But I fully agree about STR paladin and STR cleric. Just like the cleric and paladin back in AD&D, they're the same archetype (heavily armed and armoured holy warrior) just with slightly different mechanical implementations. The difference between Healing Word and Lay on Hands matters a lot in the minutiae of play, but isn't any sort of archetypical difference.

I see the WIS cleric as a sort of 'holy man' type. He's not a warrior, per-se. Maybe he's 'Van Helsing', or he could just be the village priest waving his holy symbol while he stands on the steps of the temple shielding his men from the attacks of a horde of monsters. The CHA paladin, yeah, Galahad, but Galahad was still a bad-ass. I'd have to go back and dig through the CHALADIN powers and whatnot, but I think there's a lot there which would work fine on a guy who resists blows with "May Lir be my armor and shield!" while dishing out debuffs and minor action heals.