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Tussin

Villager
a few bugbear related questions..

Oversized - You can use weapons of your size or one size larger than you as if they were your size.

are there any other feats, items, paragon paths or epic destinies that also increase hit die for weapons outside of the bugbear racial ability? i am wanting to see if there is a good weapon i can buff up a few hit die if possible

and if i use a weapon with the brutal property, can i make rerolls on my Predatory Eye racial power?
 

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masteraleph

Explorer
Eternal Defender, though it's not completely clear to me if it stacks.

And no- Brutal only applies to weapon damage dice, so [W]s only (that does include high crit dice, incidentally, but not the usual dice from a magic weapon on a crit).
 

Zathris

First Post
Eternal Defender, though it's not completely clear to me if it stacks.
They wouldn't stack, both reference your size. You need something that increases your size, there's a couple ED's (both involving Dragons), but I think the most reliable way (and still being able to use weapons, since wild shape druids can't) is being a Warden, several forms make you Large.

It is, again, worth noting that this is an entirely impractical way of increasing your damage; virtually every other race with similar stat bonuses is going to have better damage support than Bugbear.
 

Zathris

First Post
Putting together an Eladrin Swordmage|Warlock for a limited adventure- starting (and probably ending) at level 13, probably with no extended rests, about 4 sessions or so.

Here's the question:

10/17/10/15+2/8/13+2 starting array (11/20/11/20/9/16 now), Star and Infernal as pacts, with Tyrannical Thread as a daily and probably Mordant Rains of Dis as an Encounter, or 10/13/10/17+2/8/15+2 or 10/13/10/15+2/8/17+2 starting array (14 in CON and a 20 and a 22 in INT/CHA- not sure which one to go with) and Touch of Command as an Encounter and Command Insanity as Daily?
13 isn't high enough level to get the truely tasty Punishing Sigil or really have that many feats to play around with to get Vestige or SK running at obscene levels without sacrificing something else. Cha vs Con is really something you can only decide after knowing your party and DM.

I personally favor Con at lower levels because of Tyrannical Threat but I traditionally do not have amazing healers so the surges helped, given your belief of no Extended Rests this is probably the way to go.

I would advise Infernal starting and Twofold SK, spending 2 Feats on Templar of Urik to make your Boon force all cursed enemies to go prone or be weakened (favor cursing over marking) and then Howl of Doom for the encounter power unless you have no one else with a good MBA.

I realize it's iconic, but why Eladrin? ESA is nice and all, but are you a Striker or Defender?
 
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Tussin

Villager
just looking for little things to crank out more damage if possible...

so with a 2D6 or 2D8 weapon and i go from medium to huge from a power or form, that is two steps up in size....

2D6 would go to 4D6 for two size ups? and 2D8 would become 4D8 for the huge size?

medium/large/huge

i am just debating between the gouge or executioner axe..

also i am curious of the triggering resolving... if i was a bugbear that became huge and i have an oversized weapon would it scale after the sizing?

or would my dice work like this instead?

my 1D12 axe becomes 4D6 when i am huge, would oversize bring it to 6D6? because technically gargantuan is the next class up?
 

wasteomana

First Post
just looking for little things to crank out more damage if possible...

so with a 2D6 or 2D8 weapon and i go from medium to huge from a power or form, that is two steps up in size....

2D6 would go to 4D6 for two size ups? and 2D8 would become 4D8 for the huge size?

medium/large/huge

i am just debating between the gouge or executioner axe..

also i am curious of the triggering resolving... if i was a bugbear that became huge and i have an oversized weapon would it scale after the sizing?

or would my dice work like this instead?

my 1D12 axe becomes 4D6 when i am huge, would oversize bring it to 6D6? because technically gargantuan is the next class up?

2 Things:
1) If you are looking to up damage, adding larger weapon dice is a poor way to go about it in general.
2) If you start with 1d12 as your weapon die it increases to 2d6 with the first size increase and 2d8 with the second size increase. It does not go to 4d6.

Weapon damage dice:
1d8 -> 2d4 -> 1d10 -> 1d12 -> 2d6 -> 2d8 -> 2d10

So if you start with a Mordenkraad you can eventually get to 2d10 but that is basically as far as it goes.
 

masteraleph

Explorer
13 isn't high enough level to get the truely tasty Punishing Sigil or really have that many feats to play around with to get Vestige or SK running at obscene levels without sacrificing something else. Cha vs Con is really something you can only decide after knowing your party and DM.

I personally favor Con at lower levels because of Tyrannical Threat but I traditionally do not have amazing healers so the surges helped, given your belief of no Extended Rests this is probably the way to go.

I would advise Infernal starting and Twofold SK, spending 2 Feats on Templar of Urik to make your Boon force all cursed enemies to go prone or be weakened (favor cursing over marking) and then Howl of Doom for the encounter power unless you have no one else with a good MBA.

I realize it's iconic, but why Eladrin? ESA is nice and all, but are you a Striker or Defender?

Awesome advice so far. Didn't notice Howl of Doom at all.

ESA and Fey Step is nice, but the only other striker is a ranged Rogue (there is a Brawler fighter, in terms of someone having a reasonable MBA). And the controller is a Cunning Bard. I figured a bit more damage wouldn't go amiss on a Defender.
 

MwaO

Explorer
just looking for little things to crank out more damage if possible...

so with a 2D6 or 2D8 weapon and i go from medium to huge from a power or form, that is two steps up in size....

2D6 would go to 4D6 for two size ups? and 2D8 would become 4D8 for the huge size?

The basic problem is that the best damage bumps are from static bonuses applied to multi-attacks. 1d8 averages 4.5 damage, 2d8 averages 9 damage. So if you do Rain of Blows(as an example), you get +13.5 damage on average, maybe a little more for a critical hit. Yet you've sacrificed almost all feat support and ED for that little bit of extra damage.

And there are ways to get the equivalent - check out the mini-damage guide
 

Tussin

Villager
2 Things:
1) If you are looking to up damage, adding larger weapon dice is a poor way to go about it in general.
2) If you start with 1d12 as your weapon die it increases to 2d6 with the first size increase and 2d8 with the second size increase. It does not go to 4d6.

Weapon damage dice:
1d8 -> 2d4 -> 1d10 -> 1d12 -> 2d6 -> 2d8 -> 2d10

So if you start with a Mordenkraad you can eventually get to 2d10 but that is basically as far as it goes.

so does size not increase weapon die ever? what is this chart regarding monsters only?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm under the weapon size text
 

MwaO

Explorer
so does size not increase weapon die ever? what is this chart regarding monsters only?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm under the weapon size text

That's a 3.5 chart and has nothing to do with 4e other than the initial numbers match up well...

Damage tends to be a "I'm a X CR creature and therefore I should average about Y damage." in 4e, not some random hodgepodge of "Wait, he's wielding a great sword with a 25 strength, but it happens to be Tuesday, so..."
 

wasteomana

First Post
That's a 3.5 chart and has nothing to do with 4e other than the initial numbers match up well...

Damage tends to be a "I'm a X CR creature and therefore I should average about Y damage." in 4e, not some random hodgepodge of "Wait, he's wielding a great sword with a 25 strength, but it happens to be Tuesday, so..."

Basically what MWaO said. Monster damage in 4e is not scaled like the other editions even remotely. If you want to see a monster scaling chart check the DM Cheat Sheet from Slyflourish.

For players using a Larger Size of Weapon increases the damage die but it doesn't scale up in a crazy way (The scaling is listed).
 

Zathris

First Post
Awesome advice so far. Didn't notice Howl of Doom at all.

ESA and Fey Step is nice, but the only other striker is a ranged Rogue (there is a Brawler fighter, in terms of someone having a reasonable MBA). And the controller is a Cunning Bard. I figured a bit more damage wouldn't go amiss on a Defender.
Gotcha, so you're also not the only Defender but only one other Striker and the leader is Cha/Int? That really complicates things. Eh, it's basically a 1-off.
 

masteraleph

Explorer
Gotcha, so you're also not the only Defender but only one other Striker and the leader is Cha/Int? That really complicates things. Eh, it's basically a 1-off.

There's also a no divine/no primal restriction, which certainly doesn't help (I know, I know, but it's a brief interlude on a campaign that's taken us from 1-26). I also considered some sort of Fighter|Battlemind, but this seemed a little more different, and if we do ever get to 30 and start a new campaign, I've been thinking either Swordlock or Paladin|Battlemind, so this was a chance to try one out.
 

MwaO

Explorer
There's also a no divine/no primal restriction, which certainly doesn't help (I know, I know, but it's a brief interlude on a campaign that's taken us from 1-26). I also considered some sort of Fighter|Battlemind, but this seemed a little more different, and if we do ever get to 30 and start a new campaign, I've been thinking either Swordlock or Paladin|Battlemind, so this was a chance to try one out.

Battlemind is probably a good choice if you're in a group with another Defender to trigger the Brawler Fighter's mark with Lightning Rush.

I played a Swordmage|Battlemind that involved a lot of teleporting that was fun - it is in my in-play post. It would mark half the battlefield, get to the back rank BBEG, mark him, and then be invisible to him in most combats...
 

wasteomana

First Post
One question I would have is that your other campaign is 1-26, what level is this one? I've found after playing Battlemind for a little while that playing them pre-lightning rush feels like I'm playing a cripple. If you are playing something that is not divine and not primal at low levels that even more restricts your options to a very small list of things.
 

masteraleph

Explorer
One question I would have is that your other campaign is 1-26, what level is this one? I've found after playing Battlemind for a little while that playing them pre-lightning rush feels like I'm playing a cripple. If you are playing something that is not divine and not primal at low levels that even more restricts your options to a very small list of things.

I mentioned above, 13. So Lightning Rush is just fine here. I've been debating a little between the Swordmage|Warlock I had in mind and MwaO's build/idea and think I'm leaning towards the latter- between Lightning Rush and Res Man for Dimensional Vortex, it's possible to have 4 interrupts before ever engaging in using the Aegis. We're starting with 64,000 gp, buy anything, and a Radiant Weapon can do some nice work there, folding in the item bonus (and much of this is probably going to be vs. undead, so Radiant is a big plus).
 

MwaO

Explorer
Lightning Rush and Res Man for Dimensional Vortex, it's possible to have 4 interrupts before ever engaging in using the Aegis. We're starting with 64,000 gp, buy anything, and a Radiant Weapon can do some nice work there, folding in the item bonus (and much of this is probably going to be vs. undead, so Radiant is a big plus).

I'd note three things:
Dimensional Vortex and Lightning Rush are both amazing powers. But when you can go invisible to your mark and have 3 shots of Lightning Rush(and have an actual aegis mark to toss around just in case), Dimensional Vortex's value is a bit less.

I'd note that someone who is marked has an effect on them. A Staff of Aversion = +2 item bonus to all defenses against anyone you've marked. Which is roughly the benefit of a heavy shield+more. Leather+18 Int+Staff of Aversion+Elven Chain is a decent defense. Have a familiar capable of swapping items and you can shift items in and out as necessary. An Eladrin can choose to be proficient with a staff implement, even if a Swordmage|Battlemind MC Warlock.

The only reason the build has a Sunblade is because my PC was a Knight of Myth Drannor, an Eladrin Swordmage, one who is entranced by the evil purple light of Caiphon, who is an Evermeet Warlock. Oh, and despite my intent to not actually wield a cold or radiant weapon, he happened to be a worshipper of Selune, meaning he had access to the best damage feat in the game in the form of Silvery Glow.

I'm not actually kidding about what I'm about to say next. I didn't want the blade. But for the life of me as a role-player, I couldn't even imagine how my PC wouldn't be deliriously happy about finding such a weapon. So I took it...
 

masteraleph

Explorer
I'd note three things:
Dimensional Vortex and Lightning Rush are both amazing powers. But when you can go invisible to your mark and have 3 shots of Lightning Rush(and have an actual aegis mark to toss around just in case), Dimensional Vortex's value is a bit less.

Point. Just not sure what else to do there- could skip Res Man, but Blinding Beacon keys off of CHA, though Blinding is useful.

I'd note that someone who is marked has an effect on them. A Staff of Aversion = +2 item bonus to all defenses against anyone you've marked. Which is roughly the benefit of a heavy shield+more. Leather+18 Int+Staff of Aversion+Elven Chain is a decent defense. Have a familiar capable of swapping items and you can shift items in and out as necessary. An Eladrin can choose to be proficient with a staff implement, even if a Swordmage|Battlemind MC Warlock.

I actually knew that particular trick- the Staff of Aversion I picked up on the WotC forum, in Ren Zhe's post about a Blackstone Guardian Paladin|Battlemind, when folks were trying to figure out how to fix the AC when it switched to a 2-handed weapon (he was MCing Wizard and grabbing Wizard's Wrath to ignore the resistance from petrification, so he was proficient in staffs), and the Sun Elf trick from one of Zathris' many Swordlock posts.

The only reason the build has a Sunblade is because my PC was a Knight of Myth Drannor, an Eladrin Swordmage, one who is entranced by the evil purple light of Caiphon, who is an Evermeet Warlock. Oh, and despite my intent to not actually wield a cold or radiant weapon, he happened to be a worshipper of Selune, meaning he had access to the best damage feat in the game in the form of Silvery Glow.

I'm not actually kidding about what I'm about to say next. I didn't want the blade. But for the life of me as a role-player, I couldn't even imagine how my PC wouldn't be deliriously happy about finding such a weapon. So I took it...

Nice. I considered a Weapon of Summer and Fiery Blood here (since Silvery Glow is an issue for a no-divine thing, even though it doesn't require a divine class), but Radiant Weapon grants the item bonus as well, and the brief adventure is taking place in the Shadowfell, which means if they're vulnerable to anything, it's probably Radiant.
 



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