5 Foot Step "no action"

[Iku Rex]

I could not agree more. Ask for opinions, and you will, if you are lucky, find people kind enough to offer them. Answering them with anything but “thank you”, whether they are correct as in this case, or not, does not make any sense to me.

I could not disagree more.

When you ask for help with the rules on the rules board, you have every right to expect the people who answer to know what they're talking about. If someone can't support their opinion with a clear line of reasoning and/or a rules cite it's a worthless opinion, and they should have kept their mouth shut. (Unless the OP is a poll of course, where the whole point is to count opinions. It's still a worthless opinion, but now someone wants to know about it.)

Basically, if you ask for directions and someone sends you in a random direction, that someone deserves many things, but not a "thank you".


Of course, in this case Pinotage did know what he was talking about. No "rule" says every answer has to come with carefully laid out reasoning and rule quotes. However, it is generally considered to be perfectly appropriate to ask for it. (As Selganor did, in a slightly roundabout way.)

(I just wanted to address the general sentiments displayed in your post.)

 

[Mistwell]

Sorry if someone got offended by my response.

Sorry you said it that way as well, or just sorry someone took it that way?

 

[Pielorinho]

When you ask for help with the rules on the rules board, you have every right to expect the people who answer to know what they're talking about. If someone can't support their opinion with a clear line of reasoning and/or a rules cite it's a worthless opinion, and they should have kept their mouth shut. (Unless the OP is a poll of course, where the whole point is to count opinions. It's still a worthless opinion, but now someone wants to know about it.)

Actually, whether it's a worthless opinion is itself an opinion. For my part, I think it's perfectly appropriate to offer common-sense justifications for rules in the Rules forum.

If you think someone's post is worthless, then you should ignore it. If you think that it's breaking a board rule, then you should report it. What you SHOULD NOT do is respond to it in a snarky fashion.

This isn't directed at you, Selganor--you were just a little snarky, and you did apologize for it, after all! I just wanted to clarify that posts like Pinotage's first one in this thread are perfectly appropriate.

Daniel

 

[Selganor]

Sorry you said it that way as well, or just sorry someone took it that way?

Sorry that a statement that wasn't meant to offend someone would not only be taken as an offense by some people and also cause for discussion for others.

Can those who felt offended by the statement please accept my apology that it wasn't meant to offend in any way and the rest just ignore this and get back to the topic? Thanks.

If a "no action" is something that is just a "normal" action (with the exception that you may take it during other actions) that takes no time, why not just call it a free action and add in the description that you may do this before, between or after your other actions?

Why would it be called something else (that isn't really defined in the game)?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

If a "no action" is something that is just a "normal" action (with the exception that you may take it during other actions) that takes no time, why not just call it a free action and add in the description that you may do this before, between or after your other actions?

Why would it be called something else (that isn't really defined in the game)?

Because there *is* a limit on Free Actions in any given round.

 

[irdeggman]

Because there *is* a limit on Free Actions in any given round.

Also an immediate action takes the character's future swift action (and each character only gets 1 swift action per round).

The rules quotes that define "when" a 5 ft step occurs are the ones that are most applicable - since that was the original question (Can it be done outside a charaacter's normal initiative) - and the answer is pretty clearly "no it cannot".

The amplifying commments on why it would be classified as a "no action" are also real significant. That is by not classifying it as a "free", "move", "standard". "full round", "swift" or "immediate" action is does not take up any of a character's actions that could be done as those actions.

 

[Delemental]

I also think that the point of defining "no actions" is to make it very clear that you are giving up nothing by choosing to use these actions. IN other words, you're not giving up the option to do something else simply by the act of taking a 5-foot step as opposed to standing still. Now, the direction in which you take that 5-foot step may reduce your options for what to do with your actions, but you don't lose the actions simply because you took the step. It also means that the option for taking a 5-foot step can't be taken away from you just because you've squeezed in a lot of other types of actions on your initiative.

It's the same with the other defined "no action" - Delay. They want to make sure you know that if you choose to Delay until later in the round, that when you do choose to act, you're not losing any of your standard, move, free, or swift actions to do this.

Were the five-foot step defined as a free action, then for the most part it would play the same mechanically, except that now you have one less free action available to you. Though the rules don't define a hard and fast limit on the number of free actions in a round, there is a limit there (the 'reasonable limit'; like no DM will let you drop every item you carry one at a time in one round, even though 'drop an item' is a free action).

 

[Dimwhit]

Hmm, I found one thing. If one's campaign is using immediate action rule (now most of the campaigns are), it becomes not entirely clear. A character can take an immediate action while not in his turn. If so, does that mean he can take a 5-foot step just before, during, or just after that immediate action?

As far as I can tell, sure. But it will restrict what you can do on your normal turn. You only get one of those per round.

 

[Silveras]

As far as I can tell, sure. But it will restrict what you can do on your normal turn. You only get one of those per round.

Only as a house-rule. The general rules, as cited above, spell out that a 5-foot step is taken on your turn, among your other actions. An Immediate Action specifically allows you to take it outside your turn, which is basically how it differs from a Swift Action. If it also allowed you to take a 5-foot-step outside your own turn, it would be reasonable to expect that to be explicitly stated (as it is an exception to the established rules).

 

[irdeggman]

Remember also that the use of an immediate action takes up your next swift action - it also does not take up your next standard or move actions to accomplish - only your swift action.