5E: Converting AD&D Monsters to Fifth Edition

[Cleon]

Updated the Ghuuna.

Adding a hybrid form changes its Speed to "30 ft. (50 ft. in giant hyena or hybrid form)".

Tweaked the wording of Shapechanger to "The ghuuna can use its action to polymorph into a Large hyena-humanoid hybrid or giant hyena, or back into its true form, which is humanoid. Its statistics, other than its size, are the same in each form. Any equipment it is wearing or carrying isn’t transformed. It reverts to its true form if it dies."

That did lead me to wonder whether we should follow the precedent of the Werebear and give it a different AC in humanoid and crocutathrope form, i.e. "Armor Class 12 in humanoid form, 13 (natural armor) in bear and hybrid form", but I don't think I'd bother. It's simpler having it equally hard/easy to hit in all its forms like the original monster.

 

[Cleon]

I think we need to nail down the Ability scores. Your rough draft is:

STR 18 DEX 15 CON 18 INT 8 WIS 13 CHA 8

Not sure I like it having a higher Dexterity than a giant hyena. SRD Lycanthropes tend to have the same DEX (i.e. Werebear vs Brown/Polar Bear both 10, Weretiger vs Tiger both 15) or a lower DEX than the equivalent animal (i.e. Werewolf 13, Wolf 15).

That suggests somewhere around DEX 12 to 14 for it. Since a regular Gnoll is DEX 12 I'm lean towards 13 or 14 depending on whether we want it to have the same DEX bonus as the animal, which seems advisable.

The mental abilities don't seem quite right. A standard 5E Gnoll is INT 6 WIS 10 CHA 7.

I can see them being slightly better of mind than a regular gnoll but there's no mention of them being intellectually superior in the original description. That said, it does give them an Intelligence of Average compared to the standard 1E AD&D Gnoll's Low to Average.

Maybe follow the Werebear example? They have INT 11 WIS 12 CHA 12 so compared to a standard all-10 human have +1 INT +2 WIS +2 CHA. Add those to a Gnoll results in INT 7, WIS 12, CHA 9, giving it the same Wisdom as a Giant Hyena.

Hmm… that'd make the Ghuuna STR 18 DEX 14 CON 18 INT 7 WIS 12 CHA 9, which is four odd numbers and two even numbers.

I'd rather make it three odds and three evens, so how about making the STR 19? That matches the 5E Werewolf having a Strength three points higher than a Wolf (STR 15 vs STR 12).

Making the Wisdom 12 would give the Ghuuna Perception +4 due to its higher proficiency bonus. There are precedents for lycanthropes having higher perception than their animal forms. However the 5E Werewolf doesn't have a higher Perception due to its CR like the Ghuuna would, but because it has double-proficiency in the skill. Its Wisdom bonus is actually lower than a Wolf, being 11 (+) rather than 12 (+0).

So I'd also consider following that lead and giving the Ghuuna WIS 11 like a Werewolf, which'd keep it at Perception +3 like a giant hyena and the current version of the Ghuuna.

I'd also consider making the Charisma a point higher than Intelligence like a 5E Gnoll.

So I'm entertaining the following possibilities:

Ghuuna #2 STR 18 DEX 14 CON 18 INT 7 WIS 12 CHA 9 Perception +4
Ghuuna #3 STR 19 DEX 14 CON 18 INT 7 WIS 12 CHA 9 Perception +4
Ghuuna #4 STR 19 DEX 14 CON 18 INT 7 WIS 12 CHA 8 Perception +4
Ghuuna #5 STR 18 DEX 14 CON 18 INT 7 WIS 11 CHA 9 Perception +3
Ghuuna #6 STR 19 DEX 14 CON 18 INT 7 WIS 11 CHA 8 Perception +3

Of those Option #3 is my favourite but they all work for me.

Any preferences?

 

[Casimir Liber]

Going with Option #3. Agree on AC better off as one value (too fiddly otherwise and no rationale for changing)

PS: I really like the name "Crocutanthrope" as an alternate name...


went with (may as well use DMG diseases - original just says "cause disease" which can have different diseases:

Infectious Bite. The bite of a ghuuna inflicts ghuunism among gnolls in the same manner that lycanthropy is spread by regular were-creatures; Any victim of a bite must make a DC 13 CON save or become a ghuuna (if a gnoll) or contract Cackle Fever (1-3) or Sewer Plague (4-6).

 

[Cleon]

Going with Option #3. Agree on AC better off as one value (too fiddly otherwise and no rationale for changing)

Updated the Ghuuna.

PS: I really like the name "Crocutanthrope" as an alternate name...

Shall we include it in the Description then?

Anyhow, we're left with Infectious Bite. This should be part of its Bite attack rather than a separate Special Trait. It also occurs to me we can fold both forms Bites into one just by listing the damage separately.

The original version caused identical effects to a cause disease spell to non-gnolls so we could just copy that.

In other words:

Bite (Hybrid or Giant Hyena Forms Only). Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 7 (1d6 + 4) piercing damage in hybrid form, or 14 (3d4 + 7) piercing damage in giant hyena form. If the target is a humanoid, it must succeed on a DC 15 Constitution saving throw or be cursed. Gnolls are cursed with ghuuna crocutanthropy while other humanoids are cursed with an effect identical to the contagion spell (roll d4 to determine the disease: 1=filth fever, 2=mind fire, 3=seizure, 4=slimy doom).​

Hmm… I'm thinking the DC is a bit too high as contagion also causes the poisoned condition for a week. Maybe we should just make the recipient contract the disease?

Bite (Hybrid or Giant Hyena Forms Only) #2. Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 7 (1d6 + 4) piercing damage in hybrid form, or 14 (3d4 + 7) piercing damage in giant hyena form. If the target is a humanoid, it must succeed on a DC 15 Constitution saving throw or be cursed. Gnolls are cursed with ghuuna crocutanthropy while other humanoids are cursed to contract a random disease (roll 1d4 with 1=filth fever, 2=mind fire, 3=seizure, 4=slimy doom) with effects as described in the contagion spell. The diseased target must immediately make another DC 15 Constitution saving throw or be poisoned. This disease lasts for 7 days or until it is cured. Every 24 hours the target can repeat the saving throw to either remove the disease's poisoned condition or, if they are unpoisoned, be cured of the disease.​

Alternatively, we could crib from the Diseased Giant Rat.

Bite (Hybrid or Giant Hyena Forms Only) #3. Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 7 (1d6 + 4) piercing damage in hybrid form, or 14 (3d4 + 7) piercing damage in giant hyena form. If the target is a humanoid, it must succeed on a DC 15 Constitution saving throw or be cursed. Gnolls are cursed with ghuuna crocutanthropy while other humanoids are cursed to contract a disease. Until the disease is cured, the target can't regain hit points except by magical means, and the target's hit point maximum decreases by 3 (1d6) every 24 hours. If the target's hit point maximum drops to 0 as a result of this disease, the target dies.​

Which of those do you prefer?

 

[Casimir Liber]

Hmmm - thinking about it, I think I like #3, though I think it'd be good to make it a little different to the Giant Rat - maybe lose STR instead of HP (and forget about lowered HP maximum) - that way the strength modifier acts as a functional weakness (bit like a shadow) - also resembles more on of the "cause disease" options in 1e. Also I like the use of crocutanthropy yes

 

[Cleon]

Hmmm - thinking about it, I think I like #3, though I think it'd be good to make it a little different to the Giant Rat - maybe lose STR instead of HP (and forget about lowered HP maximum) - that way the strength modifier acts as a functional weakness (bit like a shadow) - also resembles more on of the "cause disease" options in 1e. Also I like the use of crocutanthropy yes

My favourite is #2 followed by #1 as the contagion spell is the 5E version of cause disease. If you prefer it to only affect Strength we could have it only cause Filth Fever but I like it affecting a random ability from STR, INT, DEX and CON depending on the disease.

 

[Casimir Liber]

I think i was very tired last night. #2 yes

 

[Cleon]

I think i was very tired last night. #2 yes

As you like. Updating the Ghuuna.

Do you think the possible poisoned condition and disease disadvantage on rolls would affect the Challenge Rating?

 

[Cleon]

As you like. Updating the Ghuuna.

Just FYI, I reordered the Bite's wording so it's more alphabetical, as follows:

Bite (Giant Hyena or Hybrid Forms Only). Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 14 (3d4 + 7) piercing damage in giant hyena form, or 7 (1d6 + 4) piercing damage in hybrid form. If the target is a humanoid, it must succeed on a DC 15 Constitution saving throw or be cursed. Gnolls are cursed with ghuuna crocutanthropy while other humanoids are cursed to contract a random disease (roll 1d4 with 1=filth fever, 2=mind fire, 3=seizure, 4=slimy doom) with effects as described in the contagion spell. The diseased target must immediately make another DC 15 Constitution saving throw or be poisoned. This disease lasts for 7 days or until it is cured. Every 24 hours the target can repeat the saving throw to either remove the disease's poisoned condition or, if they are unpoisoned, be cured of the disease.

 

[Casimir Liber]

looks good ...ugh...dndbeyond appears to have gone down....

re-entering the numbers I get CR 7 now

https://5e.tools/crcalculator.html#0,13,14,5,false,Medium,15,18,false,imm,false,0,