5E: Converting AD&D Monsters to Fifth Edition
Cleon
Legend
Noticed a typo in my previous post. It was meant to be Hit Points 127 (15d8 + 60) but it got a stray 5 instead of a 6 there.
Subtypes should be "Gnoll, Shapechanger" not just "Shapechanger" and I'd cut the "Typically" from the alignment.
For the ability scores, is INT 9 (-1) a bit high? A standard 5E Gnoll is INT 6 (-2). Gnolls got dumber from 1E AD&D where they had Low-average Intelligence to Low Intelligence in 2E and the Ghuuna is a 1E monster. I'd prefer INT 7 or 8 myself.
Ghuuna are vulnerable to cold iron weapons and magic weapons, not silver ones. Nonmagical silver weapons are useless against them.
The passive perception should be 11 not 12 if it has WIS 13 (+1) and no Perception proficiency.
That said, I suggest Perception +3 and passive Perception 13 like a Giant Hyena.
I wondered about whether its Shapechanger should mention the hyena form is Large, based on the precedent of the Werebear having "polymorph into a Large bear-humanoid hybrid or into a Large bear" in that Special Trait's description.
Hmm… does that mean a Weretiger stays Medium sized in tiger form despite standard tigers being Large in size? I'd rather clarify the size, like so:
Alternatively, how about adding a hybrid form:
The original description doesn't mention a Hyena-gnoll form, but there are shapechangers that don't have hybrid forms in AD&D but can assume a beast+humanoid shape in later editions.
It doesn't need Hyena Empathy. The Monster Manual says werewolves form packs that include wolves and dire wolves but 5E doesn't bother granting that lycanthrope Wolf Empathy.
Those Bonus Actions and Reactions all seem superfluous to me.
I like the Rampage trait from the SRD giant hyena but don't see why it needs anything added. The standard lycanthropes don't have two or three action options bolted on to them but are mechanically relatively simple.
According to the original article these creatures tend to be encountered in small packs of two to five ghunna plus an equal number of giant hyenas or twice their number of regular hyenas, so we don't want them to be individually complex as there'll be a bunch of hairy brutes on the battlefield to keep track off. That's not even considering that there'll likely be regular gnolls around the place as well.
Subtypes should be "Gnoll, Shapechanger" not just "Shapechanger" and I'd cut the "Typically" from the alignment.
For the ability scores, is INT 9 (-1) a bit high? A standard 5E Gnoll is INT 6 (-2). Gnolls got dumber from 1E AD&D where they had Low-average Intelligence to Low Intelligence in 2E and the Ghuuna is a 1E monster. I'd prefer INT 7 or 8 myself.
Ghuuna are vulnerable to cold iron weapons and magic weapons, not silver ones. Nonmagical silver weapons are useless against them.
The passive perception should be 11 not 12 if it has WIS 13 (+1) and no Perception proficiency.
That said, I suggest Perception +3 and passive Perception 13 like a Giant Hyena.
I wondered about whether its Shapechanger should mention the hyena form is Large, based on the precedent of the Werebear having "polymorph into a Large bear-humanoid hybrid or into a Large bear" in that Special Trait's description.
Hmm… does that mean a Weretiger stays Medium sized in tiger form despite standard tigers being Large in size? I'd rather clarify the size, like so:
Shapechanger #2. The ghuuna can use its action to polymorph into a Large giant hyena, or back into its true form, which is humanoid. Its statistics, other than its size and AC, are the same in each form. Any equipment it is wearing or carrying isn’t transformed. It reverts to its true form if it dies.
Alternatively, how about adding a hybrid form:
Shapechanger #3. The ghuuna can use its action to polymorph into a Large hyena-humanoid hybrid or into a giant hyena, or back into its true form, which is humanoid. Its statistics, other than its size and AC, are the same in each form. Any equipment it is wearing or carrying isn’t transformed. It reverts to its true form if it dies.
The original description doesn't mention a Hyena-gnoll form, but there are shapechangers that don't have hybrid forms in AD&D but can assume a beast+humanoid shape in later editions.
It doesn't need Hyena Empathy. The Monster Manual says werewolves form packs that include wolves and dire wolves but 5E doesn't bother granting that lycanthrope Wolf Empathy.
Those Bonus Actions and Reactions all seem superfluous to me.
I like the Rampage trait from the SRD giant hyena but don't see why it needs anything added. The standard lycanthropes don't have two or three action options bolted on to them but are mechanically relatively simple.
According to the original article these creatures tend to be encountered in small packs of two to five ghunna plus an equal number of giant hyenas or twice their number of regular hyenas, so we don't want them to be individually complex as there'll be a bunch of hairy brutes on the battlefield to keep track off. That's not even considering that there'll likely be regular gnolls around the place as well.
Casimir Liber
Adventurer
So adopted all the changes - the silver issue is like what was done with the jackalwere in 5e, which I find really annoying - and can't tweak in dndbeyond.
I can ditch feint but I think parry is good as gives it a bit of a defence with lousy AC.
I like having hybrid form as classic shapechanger ability (also the drawing in the CC in TD looks a bit like this anyway)
Yes - agree with adding the above trait - question is, make a shaman from scratch or use Fang of Yeenoghu
A case for making a new critter with some powers is that gnolls moved away from Gorellik to Yeenoghu because the latter had some sway/power over undead, thus making a shamanic figure with some powers based on this could be a good lorebuff.
I can ditch feint but I think parry is good as gives it a bit of a defence with lousy AC.
I like having hybrid form as classic shapechanger ability (also the drawing in the CC in TD looks a bit like this anyway)
Yes - agree with adding the above trait - question is, make a shaman from scratch or use Fang of Yeenoghu
A case for making a new critter with some powers is that gnolls moved away from Gorellik to Yeenoghu because the latter had some sway/power over undead, thus making a shamanic figure with some powers based on this could be a good lorebuff.
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Cleon
Legend
That's really annoying.
Hmm… how about making it a Variant Rule? Like so:
VARIANT: DEMONBLOODED GHUUNA
Some ghuuna have demonic traits such as horns, scales or oddly coloured body parts when in hybrid or animal form. A demonblooded ghuuna's type is fiend (gnoll, shapechanger) and some possess unusual traits, the commonest variant is the following.
Ironskin. An ironskinned ghuuna has damage immunity to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from nonmagical attacks not made with weapons made of cold iron or meteoric iron. This replaces the standard ghuuna's immunity to nonmagical unsilvered weapons.
Hmm… now I'm wondering whether ALL ghuuna should have the fiend type. It's good enough for a Fang of Yeenoghu, and they're arguably less monstrous than a Ghuuna
But that argument applies to standard lycanthropes too, which tend to have even worse ACs (11 for werebear, 12 for weretiger). I think we're supposed to consider their immunity to unsilvered nonmagical weapon damage as being enough of a defense!
Yes, I was thinking the illustration might be of a hybrid form since it's (a) naked and (b) as big as the hyaenodon form.
Anyhow, so are we using Shapechanger #3 then?
Come to think of it, if we give it a Hybrid Form it needs to have attacks that work in that shape! How about:
Multiattack. The ghuuna makes two attacks: one with its bite and one with its claws.
Bite (Hybrid Form Only). Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 7 (1d6 + 4) piercing damage.
Claws (Hybrid Form Only). Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 7 (1d4 + 4) slashing damage.
It's presented as a special vulnerability of the Ghuuna. The Fang of Yeenoghu isn't a shaman or spellcaster and has a lower Challenge Rating that a ghuuna, so making ghuuna answerable to one seems inappropriate.
I'd be OK statting up a Shaman later with powers over hyenas and ghuuna.
Does Gorellik appear in official 5E info for the Gnoll? The Monster Manual specifies Yeenoghu as being responsible for them.
Come to think of it, isn't Yeenoghu a Product Identity name in 5E, which is why the Fang of Yeenoghu doesn't appear in the SRD?
It might be more prudent to call their creator the Gnoll Lord.
Casimir Liber
Adventurer
Cleon
Legend
If you prefer making it a Special Trait for all Ghuuna rather than a Variant, wouldn't it make more sense to phrase it as a Vulnerability? Like so:
Iron Vulnerability A ghuuna's damage immunity does not protect it from bludgeoning, piercing and slashing damage from nonmagical weapons made of cold iron or meteoric iron.
Still don't like either the Bonus Actions or Reactions in the entry. Would cut both of them as extraneous.
Cleon
Legend
Shouldn't the Greatsword do 11 (2d6 + 4) slashing damage rather than 1d10 + 4?
Also, its Multiattack means it can do more damage in hybrid form than in either hyena or humanoid form. 1d6 + 4 plus 1d4 + 4 averages 14 DPR compared to 11 for the Greatsword or 11.5 for the giant hyena's bite.
Hmm… we could either drop the Multiattack and Claws and give it the same Bite attack in Hybrid and Hyena form or increase the damage of the Hyena and Gnoll form's single attack. Adding the Proficiency Bonus to both would cover it.
So either:
OR
Which do you prefer?
We should run it through the CR Calculator to check whether it's Challenge 6 or not with those damages.
Also, its Multiattack means it can do more damage in hybrid form than in either hyena or humanoid form. 1d6 + 4 plus 1d4 + 4 averages 14 DPR compared to 11 for the Greatsword or 11.5 for the giant hyena's bite.
Hmm… we could either drop the Multiattack and Claws and give it the same Bite attack in Hybrid and Hyena form or increase the damage of the Hyena and Gnoll form's single attack. Adding the Proficiency Bonus to both would cover it.
So either:
Multiattack. The ghuuna makes two attacks: one with its bite and one with its claws.
Bite (Hybrid Form Only). Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 7 (1d6 + 4) piercing damage.
Bite (Hyena Form Only). Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 14 (3d4 + 7) piercing damage.
Claws (Hybrid Form Only). Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 7 (1d4 + 4) slashing damage.
Greatsword (Gnoll Form Only). Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 14 (2d6 + 7) slashing damage.
OR
Bite (Hyena or Hybrid Form Only). Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 14 (3d4 + 7) piercing damage.
Greatsword (Gnoll Form Only). Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 14 (2d6 + 7) slashing damage.
Which do you prefer?
We should run it through the CR Calculator to check whether it's Challenge 6 or not with those damages.
Casimir Liber
Adventurer
I prefer second for simplicity, but I think first is more 'realistic' (having a hybrid not swiping with its claws seems weird to me) so will go with that
Comes out as CR 6 with those stats for me on https://5e.tools/crcalculator.html#0,13,14,3,false,Medium,15,18,false,imm,false,0,
Also ditched action and bonus action (feels a bit vanilla without something but on reading them again..meh), which leaves mechanics for Infectious Bite and Description
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"Ghuuna (the form is singular and plural) are the result of a special quasi-lycanthropy that affects only gnolls, causing them to shapechange into a giant hyena form. Ghuuna are affected by stress and phases of the moon like other lycanthropes.
In their normal (unchanged) form, ghuuna appear to be large gnolls. In this form they shun armor and usually carry greatswords as weapons. Their affinity for hyenas means they will commonly (80%) be found with 2d4 hyenas or 1d4 giant hyenas.
They rarely intentionally spread "ghuunism" among gnolls, preferring to be "the few and the proud."
(Created by Tomas Willis, the ghuuna first appeared in the September 1984 article "Creature Catalog: A menagerie of new monsters for you" in Dragon #89)"
Comes out as CR 6 with those stats for me on https://5e.tools/crcalculator.html#0,13,14,3,false,Medium,15,18,false,imm,false,0,
Also ditched action and bonus action (feels a bit vanilla without something but on reading them again..meh), which leaves mechanics for Infectious Bite and Description
-------------------------------
"Ghuuna (the form is singular and plural) are the result of a special quasi-lycanthropy that affects only gnolls, causing them to shapechange into a giant hyena form. Ghuuna are affected by stress and phases of the moon like other lycanthropes.
In their normal (unchanged) form, ghuuna appear to be large gnolls. In this form they shun armor and usually carry greatswords as weapons. Their affinity for hyenas means they will commonly (80%) be found with 2d4 hyenas or 1d4 giant hyenas.
They rarely intentionally spread "ghuunism" among gnolls, preferring to be "the few and the proud."
(Created by Tomas Willis, the ghuuna first appeared in the September 1984 article "Creature Catalog: A menagerie of new monsters for you" in Dragon #89)"
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Cleon
Legend
Will update the Enworld Ghuuna to match, eventually.
Well they are often leaders and champions, so presumably a fair few are unusual individuals with extra abilities like Parry. The one we're statting up is just the base model.
Yeah, the wording of that could do with being cleaned up. Just mention a Constitution save once and then describe different effects for gnolls and other humanoids.
That's a bit too obviously cribbed off the Dragon Bestiary version's text.
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