5E: Converting Monsters from White Dwarf Magazine for Fifth Edition

[Cleon]

If not, then making the armor as worthless/non-magical/non-dragon-scale-armor as possible is definitely teh way to go!

I'm thinking more that their sword and scalemail are magical but an integral part of their supernatural bodies, so crumble when they die.

It'd be easy enough to make that a Special Trait.

As to the shields: I wouldn't add them myself because many WD illustrations take liberties with what's in the texts and what not and I tend to stick to the text in case of doubt. However, I've seen you guys do take the illustrations into account in other conversions and that's an interesting approach, so I don't really care if we go for shields.

Personally I'd leave the shields off and just give them natural armor, but if you both favor (scale mail) in the Armor Class line I'd go along with it.

Hmm... the more I think about it and it light of the above, I'm tending toward making "Monstrosity" a good second to "Humanoid". Although DWs do seem to scream "Construct" for many rule-based reasons, I still cannot get over the immunities that would give them.

But perhaps I'm still too deep into 2E. Did I pick up somewhere upthread that a 5E monster's creature types doesn't actually automatically lead to any immunities?

There's no hard rule that gives a type particular immunities in 5E, but some types usually have them: an undead, for example, is often immune or resistant to necrotic damage; a powerful construct like a golem is usually unaffected by exhaustion, poison and a bunch of other conditions and damage types.

However, it's perfectly rules-legal for a type not to have the "obvious" immunities or resistances one would expect. A Skeleton, for example, only has immunity to exhaustion and poison. It doesn't have immunity to charm, cold and psychic/mind-affecting effects like they do in earlier editions of D&D.

 

[Cleon]

Could this be read as that shadow dancers are immune to magical attacks as opposed to spells, meaning that Magic Missile, Fireball, and the bite of Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound wouldn't affect them but that, say, Reverse Gravity or Repulsion (Stone Shape, even?) would?

Many, many, many cans of worms?

We interpreted that as meaning the original monster had complete immunity to magic and spells like an AD&D Golem, but deliberately toned that down to Magic Resistance since (a) that plus Immutable Form is what 5E Golems have, and (b) we wanted to give unfortunate low-level PCs who had to fight them a slight chance of surviving.

 

[Cleon]

Dang it, I'm going to start statting them up in a table.

Can always consider it a Cleon Special if we don't use the resulting Dragon Warriors.

 

[Cleon]

Dragon Warrior
Medium monstrosity, neutral
Armor Class [see below](natural armor)
Hit Points [see below]
Speed 30 ft.

Dragon Warriors Statistics Table

Type​	AC​	Hit Points​	STR​	DEX​	CON​	INT​	WIS​	CHA​	Challenge​
Black	16​	65 (10d8+20)​	18 (+4)​	14 (+2)​	14 (+2)​	3 (–4)​	13 (+1)​	11 (+0)​	3 (700 XP)​
Blue	17​	71 (11d8+22)​	18 (+4)​	10 (+0)​	15 (+2)​	4 (–3)​	15 (+2)​	13 (+1)​	4 (1,100 XP)​
Green	17​	71 (11d8+22)​	18 (+4)​	12 (+1)​	15 (+2)​	6 (–2)​	15 (+2)​	11 (+0)​	4 (1,100 XP)​
Red	19​	82 (11d8+33)​	18 (+4)​	10 (+0)​	17 (+3)​	5 (–3)​	13 (+1)​	14 (+2)​	5 (1,800 XP)​
White	16​	60 (8d8+24)​	18 (+4)​	10 (+0)​	17 (+3)​	1 (–5)​	12 (+1)​	9 (–1)​	3 (700 XP)​
Brass	16​	65 (10d8+20)​	18 (+4)​	10 (+0)​	14 (+2)​	3 (–4)​	13 (+1)​	11 (+0)​	3 (700 XP)​
Bronze	18​	75 (10d8+30)​	18 (+4)​	10 (+0)​	17 (+3)​	4 (–3)​	15 (+2)​	13 (+1)​	4 (1,100 XP)​
Copper	17​	65 (10d8+20)​	18 (+4)​	10 (+0)​	15 (+2)​	6 (–2)​	15 (+2)​	11 (+0)​	3 (700 XP)​
Gold	20​	90 (12d8+36)​	18 (+4)​	14 (+2)​	17 (+3)​	5 (–3)​	15 (+2)​	14 (+2)​	6 (2,300 XP)​
Silver	19​	82 (11d8+33)​	18 (+4)​	12 (+1)​	17 (+3)​	4 (–3)​	13 (+1)​	13 (+1)​	5 (1,800 XP)​

Saving Throws [Proficient in DEX, CON, WIS, CHA.]
 STR +7 if gold, red or red; otherwise +6
 CON +6 if gold or red; +5 if white; otherwise +4
 WIS +5 if gold; +4 if blue, bronze, copper, green or red; +3 if black, brass, silver or white
 CHA +5 if gold or red; +3 if blue, bronze or silver; +2 if black, brass, copper or green; +1 if white
Skills [Proficient in Perception and Stealth.]
 Perception +5 if gold; +4 if blue, bronze, copper, green or red; Perception +3 if black, brass, silver or white
 Stealth +5 if gold; +4 if black; +3 if green or silver; +2 if blue, brass, bronze, copper, red or white
Damage Immunities acid if black or copper; cold if silver or white; fire if brass, gold or red; lightning if blue or bronze; poison if green
Condition Immunities charmed, frightened, paralyzed; poisoned if green
Senses blindsight 10 ft., darkvision 60 ft., passive Perception 15 if gold; 14 if blue, bronze, copper, green or red; Perception 13 if black, brass, silver or white
Languages Understands Common, Draconic but can't speak
Challenge 3 (700 XP) if black, brass, copper or white; 4 (1,100 XP) if blue, bronze, green or silver; 5 (1,800) if gold or red
Proficiency Bonus +3 if gold or red; otherwise +2

Dragonscale Equipment. The dragon warrior's armor and longsword are part of its body, formed from its own living scales.

Dragonscale Weapon Master (Gold or Red Dragon Warrior Only). A dragonscale weapon deals 3 (1d6) extra damage when the dragon warrior hits with it (included in the attack).

Dragonscale Weapon Master (Silver Dragon Warrior Only). A dragonscale weapon deals 2 (1d4) extra damage when the dragon warrior hits with it (included in the attack).

Dust to Dust. If the dragon warrior dies its body and dragonscale equipment immediately crumbles to dust. If any part of its body, including an item of dragonscale equipment, is separated from the dragon warrior for more than 1 minute it will also crumble into dust.

Dragon Warriors Combat Table

Type​	Element​	To Hit​	Longsword​	Lethal Spit​	Metal Spit​
Black	acid​	+6​	2×13 (1d10+4 slashing plus 1d6 acid)​	## (#d# acid)?​	—​
Blue	lightning​	+6​	2×13 (1d10+4 slashing plus 1d6 lightning)​	## (#d# lightning)?​	—​
Green	poison (poisoned)​	+6​	2×13 (1d10+4 slashing plus 1d6 poison)​	## (#d# poison)?​	—​
Red	fire​	+7​	2×18 (1d10+1d6+4 slashing plus 2d4 fire)​	## (#d# fire)?​	—​
White	cold​	+6​	2×13 (1d10+4 slashing plus 1d6 cold)​	## (#d# cold)?​	—​
Brass	fire​	+6​	2×9½ (1d10+4 slashing)​	## (#d# fire)?​	DC## (sleep)?​
Bronze	lightning​	+6​	3×9½ (1d10+4 slashing)​	## (#d# lightning)?​	DC## (slowed)?​
Copper	acid​	+6​	2×9½ (1d10+4 slashing)​	## (#d# acid)?​	DC## (repulsion)?​
Gold	fire​	+7​	3×13 (1d10+1d6+4 slashing)​	## (#d# fire)?​	DC## (paralyzed)?​
Silver	cold​	+7​	3×12 (1d10+1d4+4 slashing)​	## (#d# cold)?​	DC## (weakened)?​

Actions

Multiattack. The dragon warrior makes two melee attacks.

Longsword (Chromatic Black Dragon Warrior). Melee Weapon Attack: +6 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 8 (1d8 + 4) slashing damage plus 3 (1d6) acid damage, or 9 (1d10 + 4) slashing damage plus 3 (1d6) acid damage if used with two hands.

Longsword (Chromatic Blue Dragon Warrior). Melee Weapon Attack: +6 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 8 (1d8 + 4) slashing damage plus 3 (1d6) lightning damage, or 9 (1d10 + 4) slashing damage plus 3 (1d6) lightning damage if used with two hands.

Longsword (Chromatic Green Dragon Warrior). Melee Weapon Attack: +6 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 8 (1d8 + 4) slashing damage plus 3 (1d6) poison damage, or 9 (1d10 + 4) slashing damage plus 3 (1d6) poison damage if used with two hands.

Longsword (Chromatic Red Dragon Warrior). Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 12 (1d8 + 1d6 + 4) slashing damage plus 5 (2d4) fire damage, or 13 (1d10 + 1d6 + 4) slashing damage plus 5 (2d4) fire damage if used with two hands.

Longsword (Chromatic White Dragon Warrior). Melee Weapon Attack: +6 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 8 (1d8 + 4) slashing damage plus 3 (1d6) cold damage, or 9 (1d10 + 4) slashing damage plus 3 (1d6) cold damage if used with two hands.

Longsword (Metallic Brass, Copper or Bronze Dragon Warrior). Melee Weapon Attack: +6 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 8 (1d8 + 4) slashing damage, or 9 (1d10 + 4) slashing damage if used with two hands.

Longsword (Metallic Gold Dragon Warrior). Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 12 (1d8 + 1d6 + 4) slashing damage, or 13 (1d10 + 1d6 + 4) slashing damage if used with two hands.

Longsword (Metallic Silver Dragon Warrior). Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 11 (1d8 + 1d4 + 4) slashing damage, or 12 (1d10 + 1d4 + 4) slashing damage if used with two hands.

Bonus Actions

Flashing Steel (Bronze, Gold or Silver Dragon Warriors Only). The dragon warrior makes one melee attack.

Reactions

Reaction. ???.
 ???.

 

[Cleon]

Will have to finish it later. Going to the pub!

 

[ilgatto]

We interpreted that as meaning the original monster had complete immunity to magic and spells like an AD&D Golem, but deliberately toned that down to Magic Resistance since (a) that plus Immutable Form is what 5E Golems have, and (b) we wanted to give unfortunate low-level PCs who had to fight them a slight chance of surviving.

. "Slight" being the operative word!

 

[ilgatto]

Will have to finish it later. Going to the pub!

Always a good idea. To your good health, Sir!

 

[ilgatto]

I'm thinking more that their sword and scalemail are magical but an integral part of their supernatural bodies, so crumble when they die.

It'd be easy enough to make that a Special Trait.



Personally I'd leave the shields off and just give them natural armor, but if you both favor (scale mail) in the Armor Class line I'd go along with it.

I don't favor shields either, as noted. I do favor the "separate" armors, though.

There's no hard rule that gives a type particular immunities in 5E, but some types usually have them: an undead, for example, is often immune or resistant to necrotic damage; a powerful construct like a golem is usually unaffected by exhaustion, poison and a bunch of other conditions and damage types.

However, it's perfectly rules-legal for a type not to have the "obvious" immunities or resistances one would expect. A Skeleton, for example, only has immunity to exhaustion and poison. It doesn't have immunity to charm, cold and psychic/mind-affecting effects like they do in earlier editions of D&D.

I see!

I think that puts the whole Humanoid vs Monstrosity vs Construct in a new light for me, although I'm not sure as to exactly how yet.

Lemme think out loud.

A 5E Construct "is made, not born", and it can be equipped with anything that takes yer fancy.
So there is actually no real reason to not make it a construct - indeed, it seems rather likely that it is, because WD21 actually says "created".

A 5E Monstrosity is "a monster in the strictest sense - a frightening creature that is not not ordinary, not truly
natural, and almost never benign". To my knowledge, there is nothing in WD21 to suggest any of this.
I can see where you come from with "Monstrosity" if you'd make them out of dragon canine teeth material and then with their armor being an integral part of them - their skin, so to say - but isn't that also possible for a Construct?

Then there's the 5E Humanoid, which is one of "the main peoples of the D&D world, both civilized and savage, including humans and a tremendous variety of other species". Actually, the notion that DWs would be human comes from Greek myth and not from WD21.

Considering this, and ignoring any notions of "magical creations" being a creature type in some way, I think I'll have to give up on the 5E DW being a Humanoid.

Indeed, I do believe I am sort of leaning (if not helplessly falling) towards Construct now.

I suppose I'm gonna have come to terms with this by consuming certain amounts of alcohol at dinner tonight.

 

[ilgatto]

Dragon Warrior
Medium monstrosity, neutral
Armor Class [see below](natural armor)
Hit Points [see below]
Speed 30 ft.

Dragon Warriors Table One

Type (damage)​	AC​	Hit Points​	STR​	DEX​	CON​	INT​	WIS​	CHA​	Challenge​
Black (acid)	17​	(d8+)​	1(+#)​	14(+2)​	1#​	2(+#)​	##​	##​	3 (700 XP)
Blue (lightning)	19​	(d8+)​	1(+#)​	10(+0)​	1#​	3(+#)​	##​	##​	4 (1,100 XP)
Green (poison)	18​	(d8+)​	1(+#)​	120(+1)​	1#​	4(+#)​	##​	##​	4 (1,100 XP)
Red (fire)	20​	(d8+)​	1(+#)​	10(+0)​	1#​	3(+#)​	##​	##​	5 (1,800 XP)
White (cold)	16​	(d8+)​	1(+#)​	10(+0)	1#​	1(+#)​	##​	##​	3 (700 XP)
Brass (fire)	16​	(d8+)​	1(+#)​	10(+0)​	1#​	2(+#)​	##​	##​	3 (700 XP)
Bronze (lightning)	18​	(d8+)​	1(+#)​	10(+0)​	1#​	2(+#)​	##​	##​	4 (1,100 XP)
Copper (acid)	17​	(d8+0)​	1(+#)​	10(+0)​	1#​	2(+#)​	##​	##​	3 (700 XP)
Gold (fire)	20​	75 (10d8+30)​	18(+4)​	140(+2)​	17​	2(+#)	##​	##​	5 (1,800 XP)
Silver (cold)	19​	(d8+)​	1(+#)​	120(+1)​	1#​	2(+#)​	##​	##​	4 (1,100 XP)

Quick note coz I also have to go. What about the gold dragon's gas breath weapon, which also inflicts damage (in 2E at least)?

 

[Casimir Liber]

Ah, yes, about that: Why did you guys decide on linking the shadow dancers to demons rather than devils?

Funny. Could have sworn they were chaotic evil in source. Oh well. Their behaviour to me seems a chaotic flavour of evil..

wow, I never knew about Tuzun Thune! I have learnt a thing....