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5E: Converting Monsters from White Dwarf Magazine for Fifth Edition

ilgatto

How inconvenient
(...) they are given orders by their masters (in this case evil dwarves, which suggests to me there may be some nastiness in instructions)

So maybe if a Gray Sqaarg is damaged to a third of its hit points or less that flips a "last resort" flag and it starts breaking spines and pulverizing skulls instead of gently putting its opponents to sleep with nonlethal wrestling moves?

The problem with the evil dwarf makers and the sqaarg gently putting people to sleep (lol again) has always bothered me, too, and I've always been tempted to just ignore its gentle approach and just let it have at it.

However, I must say that Cleon's quote has sort of finally solved it for me and so, henceforth, my sqaargs will continue to gently dissuade people from entering their masters' domains until the proverbial hits the fan for them.

Well, and I quote: The sqaarg were intended as a purely defensive device for the dwarves’ cave complex, and as such will not initiate a battle unless somebody tries to go past them (they will of course fight back if attacked.).

Therefore, the evilness of its makers will have to be made evident by the fact that the sqaarg will force people to use the 1E non-lethal combat rules - which nobody alive today has ever understood - and that it is called a sqaarg.
 
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ilgatto

How inconvenient
I've seen old adventures from 70s talking about monsters fighting as X lvl fighters before - not common - wouldn't read too much into it.

True. I suppose the original text could have read: "The monster can have a maximum strength of 40, and fights as a 6th-level fighter."

Didn't OD&D monsters fight as "fighting men" and such?
 





Cleon

Legend
No such thing as Strength 40 in OD&D, I suppose?

OD&D didn't have ability modifiers to hit and damage at first (a high STR only have a fighter better XP and carrying capacity).

Plus, the old White Box never having grapple rules. From what I recall you had to wait until BECMI and AD&D came out before you could wrestle.

Anyhow, isn't this discussion wandering a bit off track? We've converting monsters here not discussing old RPG history!

So perhaps the grey sqaarg was meant to start out as "a statue", which would just stand there doing nothing until approached or snuck past, upon which - surprise surprise - it would animate and attack, getting stronger and stronger?

I guess we'll never know what the grey sqaarg is truly about, though, unless someone can contact the author.

Well we've only got the White Dwarf text to work with. The monster's description plus the part of Albie Fiore's "module" that it crops up in says Squaarg's patrol around "beats" and try to incapacitate intruders. I'd guess their creators wanted to decide what to do with strangers who wandered into their mines themselves rather than discover a crushed body in the morning.

Or it could be a safety measure so the Sqaargs don't kill friendly visitors or members of the dwarf community who forgot the password.

The problem with the evil dwarf makers and the sqaarg gently putting people to sleep (lol again) has always bothered me, too, and I've always been tempted to just ignore its gentle approach and just let it have at it.

However, I must say that Cleon's quote has sort of finally solved it for me and so, henceforth, my sqaargs will continue to gently dissuade people from entering their masters' domains until the proverbial hits the fan for them.

Therefore, the evilness of its makers will have to be made evident by the fact that the sqaarg will force people to use the 1E non-lethal combat rules - which nobody alive today has ever understood - and that it is called a sqaarg.

I did wonder whether the Evil Dwarves could be Duergar, but those weren't a thing until the Monster Manual II came out in 1983 a whole three years after White Dwarf #21.

It did cause me to briefly consider having them be able to comprehend Undercommon as well as Dwarvish, but I went for the single language in the Working Draft.

In 1980 if a PC met an "evil dwarf" it was just a regular dwarf with an evil alignment, not a member of a malevolent race of dwarves. If my memory doesn't fail me there's at least one wicked dwarf fighter in published 1st edition modules from that period.
 

Cleon

Legend
I've always thought of it as being a remnant of the "original" grey sqaarg getting better at fighting when more people attack it, just as it gets stronger when this happens. So fights as F1 when one PC fights it, as F2 in case of two, and then all the way up to F6 - and perhaps originally even higher until it was nerfed by someone, perhaps the author, perhaps Albie Fiore or even Don Turnbull (not unusual) if he was still around at the time.

But if that was the intent, wouldn't the text just say so?

There were already several examples of monsters that got tougher and tougher with each "defeat" due to various special rules. I can think of some that come back to life with more HD and higher damage/attack, some that resurrect as a new stronger monster after each death, and one that roamed in a group and as you killed each member its life-force transferred to its companions to make them more powerful until finally the party was facing a single foe who was as strong as the original pack of them.
 

Cleon

Legend
I think the Enworld draft needs a bit of updating; let's start working through it…

Anyhow, let's get on with this…

I've still got red ## in most of my Gray Sqaarg working draft so as per usual I'll work through the stat block in order.

Its Armour Class ought to be good. The original had AC -2 which is extremely tough for early AD&D, better than some low-ranking fiends in 1E.

Still, I'm wondering whether the AC 19 Casimir proposes might be slightly too high. That's the AC level of an ancient dragon or superfiend not a lowish powered construct.

For reference, a Type II Demon (Hezrou) has AC -2, a Type II Demon (Glabrezu) and Ice Devil (Gelugon) has AC -4. In 5E those have AC 16 (Hezrou), AC 17 (Glabrezu) and AC 18 (Gelugon) due to that edition's flattening of the combat progression numbers.

Using golems as a comparison isn't as much help as you might think because 1E AD&D golems had surprisingly low Armour Classes (i.e. a Stone Golem was only AC 5 the same as a suit of chainmail) but became WAY tougher to hit from 3E and beyond (old Stonie is AC 26 in 3E and AC 17 in 5E).
 

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