6 months later: impressions of 4e

[MerricB]

I've seen this a few times and I wonder if the dev's for 4e were too timid when they made 4e. They knew, or at least had to have a pretty good idea, that when 4e hit it would make loads of waves. I almost have an impression that they were constrained because they were producing the very basic structure for the rest of the game. They couldn't go too far into "cool" because it would screw up too many things later down the line. Later supplements seem to be building off of that baseline, allowing the dev's to branch out much further than in the initial books.

Just a thought.

You might want to visit this link, Hussar: mearls: Player's Handbook 2

Me, I'm happy with what I have so far, and I'm looking forward to the 2009 products - they look fun.

Cheers!

 

[Ahglock]

I hear you. I can only hope that there will be coolness creep (without too much power creep) in future supplements. Perhaps powers that have additional effects on a target already affected by one or more conditions, so getting there is difficult and may require some co-ordination on the part of the PCs, but the results, if they manage to pull it off, are spectacular.

I would not mind power creep if it had patches for older material so it creeped up along with it.

Basic example for me is skills. While I never played epic games in 3e, I liked the idea of skills going so far that you could run on water or on a cloud with a high enough balance check. Let people in the paragon tiers run across water by just being super high level skill users, and let them run on clouds at epic tiers. This should be built into the skills themselves, I should not need X class with Y power in future supplement Z.

 

[kibbitz]

It's a bit of an annoyance to have to rely on "its magic" to explain critters- unfortunately in D&D that's pretty much required for most monsters.

---snip---

I have no idea how Drow manage to survive though. They probably ranch kobolds.

Not sure if this is acceptable to you, but in 2E era novels, they grow fungus and farm rothe, I believe.

 

[Drkfathr1]

Not sure if this is acceptable to you, but in 2E era novels, they grow fungus and farm rothe, I believe.

Cannibalism is always a nice dietary supplement too.

 

[Stormtower]

I would not mind power creep if it had patches for older material so it creeped up along with it.

I'm seeing the power creep already after 6-7 months of 4E, but I think there's opportunity to refine and polish the game's mechanics. I think Ahglock's statement, if properly followed up on by the 4E development team, could really highlight the benefits of integrating technology (DDI) into the game. Take, for example, Mearls' recent admission that the PHB1 Wizard at-wills were designed too weakly in comparison to the upcoming Invoker at-wills. WotC could "re-publish" the Wizard at-wills in Arcane Power or as an appendix/printed errata in PHB2, and then update the Compendium with the new (balanced-per-Invoker) at-wills and voila, the Wizard is "fixed" and its power creep merely keeps up with the new Joneses of the PHB2.

I am not offended or taken aback by the relatively small rise in power as the new supplements have been released, with rare exception (Battlerager temp HP gain seems slightly out of whack). But I definitely agree with the "coolness creep" and power creep, such as it is in 4E's inherently more balanced system, being equally applied to old classes and new alike.

 

[Alan Shutko]

I'm seeing the power creep already after 6-7 months of 4E, but I think there's opportunity to refine and polish the game's mechanics.

Our DM has already declared all new books off limits, and will be limiting new use of things in the Adventurer's Vault. If WotC improves things in later books, we won't see the benefits.

FWIW, the 4e game is going, but we're giving up on the parts that are causing us problems. Nobody is running a wizard, ritual casting is a no-show because of the cost (we're only 4th level, and we can't even seem to get ritual ingredients for list price), and we've abandoned published adventures. We've also begun discussions on whether we want to punt 4e completely and run something else entirely.

 

[D'karr]

we're only 4th level, and we can't even seem to get ritual ingredients for list price

This seems more like a problem with the DM than with 4e.

If a DM makes it next to impossible to use the things that the players have available to them (rituals) then what incentive is there to play with those options?

 

[Pbartender]

Nobody is running a wizard, ritual casting is a no-show because of the cost (we're only 4th level, and we can't even seem to get ritual ingredients for list price)...

This seems more like a problem with the DM than with 4e.

I agree. Low level rituals are not all that expensive and anybody who takes the Ritual Caster feat (even non-spellcasters) can use them. As a DM, while my players don't often have access to places where they can purchase ritual components, they will sometimes find valuable ritual components as loot from enemies or be able to "harvest" such components from magical monsters they kill.

 

[Alan Shutko]

As a DM, while my players don't often have access to places where they can purchase ritual components, they will sometimes find valuable ritual components as loot from enemies or be able to "harvest" such components from magical monsters they kill.

Hmmm... right now, we've only once found ritual components as loot, and the only places to buy components have been at a 50% markup (blame an interpretation of Points of Light, in that nothing is ever the cost as listed) and limited in quantity to about one ritual.

Could be that much of my dissatisfaction with 4e is a DM problem, but that's hard to say.

 

[Shazman]

I think you got my point. The only diference is that microsoft actually admits the failures of it's product.

I guess that makes Pathfinder Win 7.