D&D 5E A question for fellow long time Forgotten Realms fans.

[ccs]

That's great for you but I don't want to play in your kind of games.

Too late, you already do. And you have been since the day you began playing. Wether you realized it or not....

The problem is WoTc have proven just how sloppy they can be. We have a lot of "well X is now back but there is no reason why, it's just back". This philosophy doesn't work in FR and I don't trust them to handle crossovers because I have a feeling they won't know where to stop. I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing Vecna, Iuz, St Cuthbert, Boccob, and the rest start showing up. Why not? If a demilich can do it then so can gods.

You don't need all the explanation, just enough to make the adventure work. If you need more than what's provided? Then make something up that fits the game your actually playing at your table.

Another problem is they are using NPC's who already have a history and association with another world while never having an association with FR such as Acererak. Now if they had said "The demilich Corpsetaker has arrived from another world and decided to set up shop in FR", we now have an NPC that has no association what so ever with any world therefore Wizards has the opportunity to create a background on Corpsetaker and develop his current presence in FR, but instead they use Acererak because people know the name.

It's very sloppy.

You know all this stuff here concerning Acererak?: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Greyhawk_characters#Acererak

It was the product of 38+years of various TSR/WoTC people adding stuff. Adding ever more & more to the backstory of Acererak. Every so often we'll find out some more bits about good old Acererak.... And the next dose? Comes to you in Sept. 2017.

So soon we'll get the details of another of the many lairs the article states he created. That it's on in the FR? So what? We've long known officially that travel between the FR & other D&D settings (including GH) is possible.
I wonder if they'll tie it to the real Acererak or tie it to his simulacrum-turned-real-being?

And the Tomb of Horrors has been an official possibility in the FR since 1987.
Module S1-4, Realms of Horror, p.6, 1st & 3rd paragraphs under Locating the Dungeon
Paragraph 1:
"You may locate this adventure in The WORLD OF GREYHAWK Campaign Setting, in The FORGOTTEN REALMS Campaign Setting, in your own campaign world, or nowhere at all if you choose. Setting the stage for the location you use depends in large part on what you choose."

Paragraph 2: Is a list of ideas where to locate the tomb in GH.

Paragraph 3 (1st sentence):
"You may, if you choose to, locate this dungeon in The Forgotten Realms, or you may locate this adventure in your own campaign world."
The rest of the paragraph just talks about locating it somewhere remote, but not too remote. I think Chult fits that.

But if you really want to rant about sloppy? Answer this question: When the real Acererak was alive, what race was he?

 

[Remathilis]

On the surface the world has been reset the way it was, but when you dig deeper, 5e realms is kind of it's own beast very much, because various Gods are back, but some of these Gods we're from different times and never interacted with each other. And while events has played out that lead many parts of the forgotten realms to end up resembling 1e/2e, they recent past didn't just disappear, it's left it's mark on everyone.

Just a taste. 5e is designed to appeal to nostalgia, but it's it own thing, with it's own twists.

It wasn't a literal reset insofar in "its not 1360 again" but anything that had radically changed was restored so that material from pre-4e can be "fit in" if the DM wants. To whit.

* The map has been restored to similar to the 1e/2e one. The Old Empires, Maztica, and Chult are back to what the looked like pre-SP. The Sea of Fallen Stars is back. Earthmotes (with few exceptions) are gone.

* Cities that were changed or destroyed or radically altered (Waterdeep, Neverwinter, etc) were "rebuilt" in a remarkably short time.

* Shade/Nethril is gone, Myth Drannor is no more but a ruin again.

* NPCs assumed dead (Durnan, Halastar, Volo, Buernor and the Companions, etc) are all back.

* Groups and organizations that were changed (Harpers, Red Wizards) are more-or-less back to their traditional roles.

* All the dead Gods are back and have active churches. Much of the "X God was an aspect of Y" is gone.

* The curse of Asmodeus is hand-waved, allowing for diverse tieflings of different origin or appearance (SCAG).


What this has done is create a "timeless" vision of the Realms where material printed in 5e can be used in nearly any previous version of it with minimum retro-fitting. There is no info in SKT, for example, that couldn't be used in pre-ToT Realms with the most minimum of alteration. ToA will restore Chult to the point any previous Cult info is valid, with a few details. You can run it in the 5e post-Sundering era as is, or use it in earlier times with minimum fuss. A complete change from 4e's RSE which radically changed so much of Faerun it was nigh-impossible to use the old material as reference.

So on the surface, it resembles the Old Realms enough to use new material with it with minimum fuss (and vise-versa) and yet if go past and look at the details, the rich history of changes remain (rather than ignored or retconned). Best of both worlds.

 

[Hussar]

Mmmm actually it is. Once upon a Grey Box it wasn't but after all these years it's not anymore. Years and years of lore have taken the kitchen sink title away from FR.

Nobody is talking about homebrew so please don't go there. We are talking about the official FR.

Hang on. So much of the lore for FR has been borrowed from other settings, even after the Grey Box.

The Drow, for example, appear in Forgotten Realms (at least the lore), well after Grey Box and are lifted from Greyhawk. - See Drow of the Underdark (1991)

Wild Elves - Greyhawk

Aquatic Elves - Dragonlance



Vecna as a god in FR is added in 3e.

Tieflings are from Planescape.

Genasi are from Planescape

All the named spells in D&D.

And of course, never minding Greenwood's own words:

The "Forgotten Realms" derive their name from the fictitious fact upon which play in my campaign is based: that a multiverse exists, of countless parallel co-existing Prime Material Planes (including the world presented herein, our own modern "Earth," and any other fantasy settings a DM may wish to incorporate in play), all related to the Known Planes of Existence presented in the AD&D system. Travel betwixt these planes was once far more common than is the case now; hence, the Realms have been "forgotten" by beings of Earth.

Saying FR is a kitchen sink setting is like saying rain is wet.

 

[Remathilis]

Someone tell Hussar that Vecna isn't a deity in FR. I'd do it myself, but...

 

[JeffB]

Someone tell Hussar that Vecna isn't a deity in FR. I'd do it myself, but...

In 4e, I think he may be. Since he became a core deity. I think that was also the case in the 4eFRCG. I would have to dig that book out.

 

[Eltab]

I think the Sundering and subsequent material has been handled much better than the Spellplague was handled.
5e feels more like adding paint touch-ups to an existing mural, whereas 4e felt like somebody scraped everything off and sanded down the original surface then applied new paint.

And - as a former teenager who had to explain to his parents that the Devils and Demons in D&D were supposed to be enemies to be defeated, not role-models to be emulated - I like the idea of crafting a demon-banishing adventure set in FR's former Empire of Narfell, far away from Ed Greenberg's Dalelands and WotC's Sword Coast. "Kitchen sink" pffft.

 

[Shasarak]

Someone tell Hussar that Vecna isn't a deity in FR. I'd do it myself, but...

Is that not the best part of Forgotten Realms? Being able to steal all of Greyhawks stuff?

 

[Hussar]

Snort. Because one mistake in my examples invalidates my point.

It's probably an easier list to list all the original FR material than stuff it's ganked from other sources.

 

[Shasarak]

Dont feel bad, not many people realise that the Forgotten Realms is older then DnD so I imagine it ganked a lot of stuff from everywhere.

 

[Jeremy E Grenemyer]

Dont feel bad, not many people realise that the Forgotten Realms is older then DnD so I imagine it ganked a lot of stuff from everywhere.

A better word than "ganked" is "borrowed."

Even so, when it comes to the Realms it's wiser to not assume a trait shared between the Realms and an older setting like Greyhawk means the Realms borrowed from Greyhawk wholesale, much less in part.

Dark Elves, for example. The Dark Elves of the Realms were not envisioned by Ed Greenwood as "Let's take what Greyhawk is doing and port it over into the Realms." He had other ideas before he sold his setting off to TSR.