D&D 5E A question for the 5e Experts about the Monk class

[UngeheuerLich]

I addressed this by suggesting that they specifically not fly around and zap from above.Play the 4 Element version of the monk and see how often you use the 'elements' that come from the Order. It is going to be quite rare - even rarer than in my exercise as you'll have other team members that are better at sweeping out enemies than you are so you won't have as much of a need to use a fireball, thunderwave, etc...

This is one of those situations where people that do not see the problem probably have not played the class.

Yes. And if they do? The 4e monk has more utility if you focus on those spells. Enough? Maybe not. Those encoubters are a good measure and it is completely legitimate to dismiss it. I am now thinking thag maybe my monk I just play will chose 4elements to see for myself. I just believe power in encounters does not twll the whole story. If I can cast fly to reach a point noone else could, that is a big plus and no other monk subvlass can even compete.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Thing is, if you have lots of small fights, the 4E monk will gradually burn through Ki boosting flurry of blows, and will never ever use any of those inefficient spells.

I think this is not right from my experience. A well placed fireball can save a lot of other resources. But that experience an differ from table to table. And to reiterate myself: I think the 4e monk is full of trap options and it can't really bring 4 elements to the table. A lot of those options are rather trap options. You could maybe just take half of thevoptions away and what is left is a much more solid subclass.

 

[jgsugden]

Yes. And if they do? The 4e monk has more utility if you focus on those spells. Enough? Maybe not.

Those encoubters are a good measure and it is completely legitimate to dismiss it.

Huh?

I am now thinking thag maybe my monk I just play will chose 4elements to see for myself. I just believe power in encounters does not twll the whole story. If I can cast fly to reach a point noone else could, that is a big plus and no other monk subvlass can even compete.

Unless they're an aaracockra, have an ally that can cast fly, buy a potion for the rare occasion when they need it, etc... but generally, yes - they may have a few utility abilitiesw. Try it and see how often you make use of the Order's benefits.

 

[jaelis]

Yes. And if they do? The 4e monk has more utility if you focus on those spells. Enough? Maybe not. Those encoubters are a good measure and it is completely legitimate to dismiss it. I am now thinking thag maybe my monk I just play will chose 4elements to see for myself. I just believe power in encounters does not twll the whole story. If I can cast fly to reach a point noone else could, that is a big plus and no other monk subvlass can even compete.

If there are no other casters in your party, then yes, play a 4E monk and hope for the best. They will bring some utility and area control to the table that will otherwise be lacking.

But it will not be much fun, because the subclass is not very good at utility and area control, and if you spend all your ki trying then you also won't be good at what a monk can do well.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Huh?

If fighting power is all you need and you only want to focus on what is augmenting your base monk powers, then you have good reason to dismiss the 4e monk as "underpowered".
And still, there might be situations where utility beats combat strength. That might be true only for some tables.

I am sorry for spelling errors. I am typing fast on my smartphone.
I probably won't chose the fly spell omfor an aaracokra monk.

And to repeat myself again: I think the subclass is not very well designed. It is also very strange that you cam dump all kinpoints into a single power that is not a spell but the spell is limited. Clench of the northwind and eternal mountain defense are probably strong, but less weaker than similar level base powers. I recently looked for the playtest of the monk and you notice that the monk (and the ranger too) were heavily modified after the last playtest. So it is not surprising that those classes while not totally off are not feeling right.

Last plea: please enlighten me how the open hand powers really help in your trial scenarios? I fail to see the utility of the open hand techniques.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

If there are no other casters in your party, then yes, play a 4E monk and hope for the best. They will bring some utility and area control to the table that will otherwise be lacking.

But it will not be much fun, because the subclass is not very good at utility and area control, and if you spend all your ki trying then you also won't be good at what a monk can do well.

I am not sure to be honest and I think I will take the subclass that will fit the character best. If I really take 4elements I will tell you if I would do so again. I am also split between kensai, open hand and drunken master. I do believe kensai brings the biggest boost in combat power.

 

[jaelis]

I do believe kensai brings the biggest boost in combat power.

Interesting what do you like about kensei? It does gives some real ranged capability, that is nice I think. But for melee I would probably prefer open hand.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Interesting what do you like about kensei? It does gives some real ranged capability, that is nice I think. But for melee I would probably prefer open hand.

+2 AC is nice. You could use a longsword for 1d10 for while. And yes, +1d4 damage for ranged attack is not too bad. As I said: I think the monk subclasses all just add a bot flavour. The base class is quite strong and brings a lot to the table already.

 

[jaelis]

+2 AC is nice. You could use a longsword for 1d10 for while. And yes, +1d4 damage for ranged attack is not too bad. As I said: I think the monk subclasses all just add a bot flavour. The base class is quite strong and brings a lot to the table already.

The AC bonus is a better than I was thinking, I had in mind you needed to use your bonus action for it, but actually you just do unarmed damage on one attack instead of longsword damage. And AC is a weakness for the regular monk, so yes, I see your point

 

[Dausuul]

Well, the problem is, from the sounds of things, your purpose is to get extra stuff at no cost. Which is, by definition, out of balance.

Only if the original class is defined to be balanced. Which monk ain't.