A request for information/opinion

[Water Bob]

Our policy is to roll 4d6 seven times, throw out the lowest die and pick the six highest sets for our stats. My seventh set was a 10. :shrug:

Understood. I figured it was something along those lines.

Let's see what I can do...Hmmm. Not bad, even with that streak of low rolls.

The first one I forgot to only add 3 dice, so disregard.

As for the others, I drop the 9 and end up with stats: 16, 11, 13, 12, 15, 14.

That's a solid charater in my game--not a single stat below 10.

 

[Water Bob]

Just because I want to use the dice roller again, here's my character using the standard, default method of 4d6, drop lowest, six times.

Hey...what is this! I'm starting not to trust this dice roller.

Look at Roll 5. That should be 18, but it clearly says it is discarding the lowest roll.

This character ain't bad at all! 9, 11, 17, 14, 18, 12.

I'll take it!

 

[Grogg of the North]

Why a fighter? Mostly for the bonus feats, and I had to choose between Fighter, Paladin, or Knight for the first four levels. I'm not familiar with Ascetic Knight, what's it from?

And while it might be petty, it was the DM's perrogative, and I'm not the kind of player that is going to challenge the entire campaign premise.

I'm not sure what the magic level is going to be overall, but the DM has been toying with a system to incorporate something similar to FFVII's materia slots into the game. I'm not sure if he's going to use this campaign to do that, though.

Well hopefully you'll get a kick ass way to roleplay learning your unarmed abilities! Go go 80's training montage!

Ascetic Knight is in Complete Adventurer (pg 105). It lets you stack Paladin and Monk levels for smite damage and unarmed strike damage. It also allows you to multiclass freely between the two.

I've seen enough negative things about disarm that I'll drop it from the build (yay free feat slot!)

As for the sundering, I was planning on taking the Improved Sunder feat, which (according to how I'm reading it) would negate any penalties and give me a +4 to my rolls.

I like that thought as well, but if there's a way to get that Ravage ability without VoP, then that would open up my monk's ability to use magic items as well. :shrug:

I only just recently learned about the Improved Natural Attack, and will definitely be throwing that into the build as soon as I can. As for the Pain touch, I'll have to figure out if I could use that and still qualify as exalted- after all, intentionally causing undue pain could be construed as a less than exalted deed to some people. If I can work it, then I'll put that in as well.

Thank you very much for your input, by the way.

If you take the feat Touch of Golden Ice you can get the ravage ability. I guess its just a manner of figuring out when and if you can put it in your build.

As for Pain Touch, definitely ask your DM first. Better to know up front. I think you should be okay as long as you don't take Vow of Nonviolence or Vow of Peace.

Also, Nymph's Kiss may be a good feat to look at. Skill points are always helpful.

 

[dragonfriend7738]

This is what I have so far:

Name: Horus
Race: Human
Class: Fighter 4 (campaign start) Monk levels after
Base Stats:
STR: 17
CON: 17
DEX: 17
INT: 16
WIS: 18
CHA: 17

Feats/abilities:

Lv1: Feat: Sacred Vow; Human feat: Vow of Poverty; Fighter 1: Improved Unarmed Strike; VoP1: AC+ 4, Touch of Golden Ice
AC: d20 +7(dex + VoP) BAB: +1(+str=4) Saves: +2, +0, +0

Lv2: Fighter 2: Weapon Focus (Unarmed); VoP2: Nimbus of Light
AC: d20 +7 Total AB: +5(+6 unarmed) Saves: +3, +0, +0

Lv3: Feat: Dodge; VoP3: AC +5, Endure Elements
AC: d20 +8(+9 w/dodge) TAB: +6(7 unarmed) Saves: +3, +1, +1

Lv4: +1 Wis (19) Fighter 4: Deflect Arrows; VoP4: Exalted Strike +1 (magic), Intuitive Attack(+4 to BAB due to WIS)
AC: d20 +8(9) TAB: +8(9 unarmed) +Exalted Strike Saves: +4, +1, +1

Lv5: Retrained from Fighter 1: Power Attack; Monk 1: Stunning Fist, Flurry, Unarmed Strike; VoP 5: Sustenance.
AC: d20 +12(dex+wis+VoP) TAB(with exalt. strike): +9(10 unarmed) Saves: +6, +3, +3

Lv6: Feat: Improved Sunder; Monk 2: Combat Reflexes; VoP 6: AC +6, Deflection +1, either Sanctify Natural Attack or Holy Radiance.
AC: d20 + 14 TAB: +10(+11 unarmed) Saves: +7, +4, +4

My DM already stated that I'd be able to re-train my Lv1 IUS feat if I cross class to Monk at level 5, which in effect would give me two bonus feats and flurry of blows then.

After input from above, I'm going to drop the Deflect Arrows for Improved Natural Attack at level 4, as that's the first that I'd be able to get it.

Does anyone know why they dropped Fast Movement for level 2 monks? I saw it in the 3.0 phb, but it's not there in the 3.5 one.

I'm going to look into what an Exalted Paladin/Monk Ascetic Knight would look like up to level 6 now. Please, let me know if you have any advice or tweaks for this build.

 

[dragonfriend7738]

A thought: How would this feat chain work? Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Natural Attack, Superior Unarmed Strike.

 

[Grogg of the North]

Superior Unarmed Strike lets your monk deal damage as if they were 4 levels higher. So a 6th level monk would deal damage as a 10th level monk. 1d8 to 1d10

INA makes you effectively one size category larger. So if you were 6th level you would go from 1d8 to 2d6.

Combine the two and a 6th level monk would go from 1d8 to 2d8. Tack on Enlarge Person and you're now doing 3d8. So your average damage is 13.5. Compare to a greatsword which only does 7 on average. Yes, you had to use two feats and magic, but the look on your fighter friend's face will be worth it.

Also consider combining with a monk's belt to get another 5 levels on your damage.

I should be noted that your monk's unarmed strike damage does not increase after 20th level. So depending on how long you will be playing this monk you may wind up with useless feats or gear.

 

[emoplato]

My loot? If I take VoP, I won't be using any loot.

Not to say that it wouldn't be inconsiderate towards the rest of the party, though.

However, on that note, one of the other players did mention that he was going to take arms/armor craft skills.

Did you forget that unarmed strikes are considered light weapons so therefore take -4 penalty on sunder? I referenced it before in what I said in this thread. Also, have you looked into a Kensai(Complete Warrior) and the fighter variant?

 

[dragonfriend7738]

Did you forget that unarmed strikes are considered light weapons so therefore take -4 penalty on sunder? I referenced it before in what I said in this thread. Also, have you looked into a Kensai(Complete Warrior) and the fighter variant?

I'm looking at the Kensai now, and it's looking interesting to say the least. The only real problem that I'm seeing with it is that it's incompatible with Vow of Poverty. (requires masterwork weapon, if the weapon isn't a natural attack) Also, with the signature weapon- for a monk's unarmed strike, would he have to choose one type of unarmed strike (fists, headbutt, knee, elbow, or feet), or would he have to fork up 190% of the exp cost to embue the weapon if he's going the crazy route?

For the Unarmed penalty to sunder (which is rather painful, and would make my Improved Sunder only even things out) is there any way to get around it? I'm looking through my books now, but maybe you guys know something and can save me time.

But, on that note, I just read that it specifically states under Sunder rules that you cannot sunder an armor that is being worn by an opponent, which is specifically what I was planning on using the ability for. (Make the baddie a little more squishy for the party to fight) Any suggestions on a different build base?

All these snags are making me seriously rethink the premise behind this guy, but I still want to use a VoP melee character.

 

[emoplato]

I'm looking at the Kensai now, and it's looking interesting to say the least. The only real problem that I'm seeing with it is that it's incompatible with Vow of Poverty. (requires masterwork weapon, if the weapon isn't a natural attack)

So, what is an unarmed attack considered? It has specific rules for enhancing natural attacks. As I said before look into tripping whenever you successfully trip someone you get a free attack and it doesn't have the stupid weapon size modifiers in it either.
I really suggest a Dungeon crasher if this guy going to require you to be a fighter before monk. It really helps damage and even more control potential.
Do you have to be a human? Yes, humans are good for about everything because of versatility, but depending on what you want to do there are better races for certain strategies.
Also, what do you really want out of the monk? The theme, its abilities, what? This is important because there some better options out there that can still have the same theme.

 

[dragonfriend7738]

So, what is an unarmed attack considered? It has specific rules for enhancing natural attacks. As I said before look into tripping whenever you successfully trip someone you get a free attack and it doesn't have the stupid weapon size modifiers in it either.
I really suggest a Dungeon crasher if this guy going to require you to be a fighter before monk. It really helps damage and even more control potential.
Do you have to be a human? Yes, humans are good for about everything because of versatility, but depending on what you want to do there are better races for certain strategies.
Also, what do you really want out of the monk? The theme, its abilities, what? This is important because there some better options out there that can still have the same theme.

I'll definitely look into the trip function- after all, it's just a simple matter of substituting Improved Sunder for Improved Trip and Power Attack for Combat Expertise, since I'd not be getting the free monk feat for it until level 10 at the least.

Where is the Dungeon crasher at? Never heard of it before.

As for the race, human was required. We had the option of going half-elf, but it didn't suit my purposes.

Ultimately I want a guy that the Paladin can say "Hey, dude, those guys are evil and they're screwing with people around here," and point, and my monk can go into them and immobilize/incapacitate them in a matter of rounds.

The Monk AC bonus plus the VoP bonus would allow me to stand much longer in battle than a normal monk would dream of (+14 at level 6? Gawd.) and the Touch of Golden Ice + Flurry of blows ability means that at least someone is going to be frozen by the end of the encounter. (I'm going to have to look into the extenuating bonuses for using that against evil outsiders and such- where can I find that?)

Of course, if I start out as a Paladin, I wouldn't need one to direct me, but doing so decreases the amount of specialization that I'm open to as a Fighter/Monk combo, thanks to the number of fighter available feats that this build is looking at using.