D&D 5E A simple houserule for martial/caster balance.

ECMO3

Hero
Yes, this what I have been think about for a long time. Lvl 1-10 are hero levels and 11+ are superheroes, anime, whatever you want to call it.
Not a fan of putting this in the class mechanics. As far as class goes, martials should be martials IMO. Many of the subclasses do get off the wall cartoonish stuff and that is where these mechanics should reside for martials.

Note, I am ok with Rangers getting some of that stuff because they are more of a Gish than a martial.
 

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EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way
Wizards should be the most powerful class. The company is WIZARDS of the Coast. The game is about magic and fantasy.
Had you stopped here, I would legit have thought this was a joke.

That it is not a joke makes me very sad. The fact the company has a certain class's name in it has nothing whatsoever to do with what the game balance should be. The two are totally unrelated. It would be like arguing that a person's surname should define what job they work...
 

ECMO3

Hero
Had you stopped here, I would legit have thought this was a joke.

That it is not a joke makes me very sad. The fact the company has a certain class's name in it has nothing whatsoever to do with what the game balance should be. The two are totally unrelated. It would be like arguing that a person's surname should define what job they work...
There is more than one way to rate "balance".

People on this board use a variety of subjective statements and scenarios based on what they think is balanced in the game and which classes are better. But there is one easy, quantitative way to evaluate this: Look at which class is played the most. Logically the most popular classes are the ones that should be nerfed to "balance" the game between the classes. Fighter is the most played class and Rogue is the second most played and these are two of the three least magical classes.

The most "balance" possible would be when 7% of players played each class instead of nearly double that number playing Fighters and half that number playing Artificers. As a point of fact, the game would be more "balanced" if WOTC nerfed fighter and Rogue to be weaker so fewer people played them while bosting Druid and Artificer so more people played them. The other classes are mostly grouped between 7 and 8% where they should be.

In the two games I am currently playing and the last two before that we had 1 Wizard total in all four parties (and it is me playing it). We had 3 fighters, 1 Paladin, 2 Clerics, 1 Druid, 2 barbarians, 3 Rangers, 2 Warlocks, 2 Bards, 3 Rogues. Those numbers include both classes on multiclass chatracters, but the point is Wizards are hardly dominating the game when it is played.
 
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dave2008

Legend
Not a fan of putting this in the class mechanics. As far as class goes, martials should be martials IMO. Many of the subclasses do get off the wall cartoonish stuff and that is where these mechanics should reside for martials.

Note, I am ok with Rangers getting some of that stuff because they are more of a Gish than a martial.
I guess it depends what you want. You can, IMO, cap the game at level 10 and eliminate the high level cool things from everyone. Or, just admit once you get past 10, your martials can do things beyond what is physically possible. They are still doing martial stuff, just beyond what "real" humans can do. Then they can keep pace with high level casters
 

dave2008

Legend
There is more than one way to rate "balance".

People on this board use a variety of subjective statements and scenarios based on what they think is balanced in the game and which classes are better. But there is one easy, quantitative way to evaluate this: Look at which class is played the most. Logically the most popular classes are the ones that should be nerfed to "balance" the game between the classes. Fighter is the most played class and Rogue is the second most played and these are two of the three least magical classes.

As a point of fact the game would be more "balanced" if WOTC nerfed fighters and Rogue to be weaker so fewer people played them while bosting Druids and Artificers so more people played them. The game would be balanced when 7% of players played each class instead of nearly double that number playing fighters and half that number playing Artificers.
If this is what you believe, well I've got some real estate you might be interested in...
 

dave2008

Legend
Non-damage cantrips are at-will (normal), but damage-cantrips (what we call "jinxes") have a 5-6 recharge feature, similar to a breath weapon. So, if you use your fire bolt, you would have to roll 5-6 on d6 to use it the next round. Also, you only know one jinx to begin with, gaining a second at 7th level and a third at 14th level.
I really like differentiating cantrips and jinxes. I think I may have to adopt that.

I think I might say you can use jinxes prof. bonus times per day, seems to be the way things are moving.
 


ECMO3

Hero
. You may find a build or subclass that substantially emphasizes something else, but basically single target damage is backed in as goal one for martials.
I don't think that is really true on a Ranger (although they are not really martials) or Monk. It is true on Fighters, Barbarians and Paladins though.
 

I don't think that is really true on a Ranger (although they are not really martials) or Monk. It is true on Fighters, Barbarians and Paladins though.
And Rogues even moreso than any of the others.

Poor Rogues.

The 5e rogue really emphasises to me how people read the problem with sneak attack in 3.5 wrong. The issue was not that the rogue sometimes couldn't use sneak attack because some monsters were immune to it, or they couldn't get into flank. The issue was that without sneak attack the rogue has nothing else.
 

ECMO3

Hero
I guess it depends what you want. You can, IMO, cap the game at level 10 and eliminate the high level cool things from everyone. Or, just admit once you get past 10, your martials can do things beyond what is physically possible. They are still doing martial stuff, just beyond what "real" humans can do. Then they can keep pace with high level casters
I think they already can that though if you take the subclasses. Look at Rune Knight, Eagle Totem or Echo Knight, not to mention Eldritch Knight. I think this is there for the people that want to play superman, while also having more mundane options available.

I will add that Monks can do things beyond what is physically possible, way beyond, yet that does not seem to endear people to them as a class.
 

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