D&D 5E Aberrant Mind's Psionic Sorcery is officially the most powerful feature.

[Ovinomancer]

7th fireball. Its the spell level. The caster always chooses the level.
Its completely diferent from Magic Initiate that is always the lowest level.
I dont care about using spell slots or Sorcery Point. A 7th spell consumes 7th level spell slots or 7 Sorcery Point.
If The Psionic Sorcery has no restriction, a level 9 Summon Aberration consumes 9 Sorcery Points.
As I showed, you can cast 7th fireball with charges and replaces completely spells slots. Now, I Will cast with Sorcery Points instead Spell slot.

If anyone show me why I cant use 7th Sleep as Psionic spell. Im wrong
Otherwise .Its RAW. Clear as Water.
The Psionic Sorcerer uses The spell' level that can higher level spending more Sorcery Points, equal Staff of Mage expending 7 charges to cast a 7th fireball. Its completely different than Magic Initiate or Ritual caster especifies that cant be upcasted.


No restriction as Ritual Caster or Magic Initiate do. Any Psionic spell can be casted as higher level.
RAW.

Okay, let me respond by asking a question. Can I cast Fireball as a 9th level spell using the Staff of the Magi, by spending 9 charges? If no, why?

 

[Maxperson]

7th fireball. Its the spell level. The caster always chooses the level.
Its completely diferent from Magic Initiate that is always the lowest level.
I dont care about using spell slots or Sorcery Point. A 7th spell consumes 7th level spell slots or 7 Sorcery Point.
If The Psionic Sorcery has no restriction, a level 9 Summon Aberration consumes 9 Sorcery Points.
As I showed, you can cast 7th fireball with charges and replaces completely spells slots. Now, I Will cast with Sorcery Points instead Spell slot.

If anyone show me why I cant use 7th Sleep as Psionic spell. Im wrong
Otherwise .Its RAW. Clear as Water.
The Psionic Sorcerer uses The spell' level that can higher level spending more Sorcery Points, equal Staff of Mage expending 7 charges to cast a 7th fireball. Its completely different than Magic Initiate or Ritual caster especifies that cant be upcasted.


No restriction as Ritual Caster or Magic Initiate do. Any Psionic spell can be casted as higher level.
RAW.

There is an order to things when you are casting spells and using abilities like Sorcery Points.

1. Choose a spell that you want to cast.
2. That spell uses up a spell slot equal to the spell level listed in the PHB unless you use a higher level slot.
3. If you choose to use a higher level slot, the spell THEN assumes that higher spell level(Per the PHB section on using higher level slots). It doesn't do so before you choose the slot that you want to use to cast the spell.
4. The spell is cast and expends that spell slot, unless you then choose to use Sorcery Points equal to the spell level established by the slot chosen, in which case the slot is not expended.

You have incorrectly argued specific beats general for the new ability. However, there is no language that specifically says that you get to use spell lots or spell levels higher than you can normally cast, so that argument fails. Without that explicit and specific wording, the general method of figuring out spell levels(slots you have available to you) is used.

You have also argued that the Magic Initiate feat has specific wording in it that prevents up casting. This is true. It does have that specific language, which if that specific language was absent, would mean that you could up cast those spells per the general rule. That specific limitation being absent from the new Sorcerer feature does not mean that you can exceed the general rules limiting what level you can cast at. It simply means that the Sorcerer feature is not similarly limited. You still need that explicit language mentioned above in order to exceed 5th level spells as a 10th level Sorcerer.

 

[nogray]

TL;DR: In order for specific to beat general, that specific must be specifically called out. Psionic Sorcery does not specifically call out that it would allow casting spells of a level other than the spell's (default) level. Allowing Psionic Sorcery to upcast at all seems to be against Rules as Written, and allowing it to upcast beyond the maximum spell slot available to the character is clearly against Rules as Intended.

Reasoning (Rules-Lawyer Mode):

Spoiler: From Casting a Spell at a Higher Level:

When a spellcaster casts a spell using a slot that is of a higher level than the spell, the spell assumes the higher level for that casting.

This states that, generally, the only way to access the "assumes the higher level for that casting" subordinate clause is for the spell to be cast "using a spell slot that is of a higher level than the spell." Any other way to access greater effects must address that specific rule (like, for example, the Staff of the Magi with its Fireball and Lightning Bolt effects.

Spoiler: From Psionic Sorcery:

Beginning at 6th level, when you cast any of the spells gained from your Psionic Spells feature, you can cast it by expending a spell slot as normal or by spending a number of sorcery points equal to the spell’s level. If you cast the spell using sorcery points, it requires no components.

This creates two options for when you cast a spell "gained from the Psionic Spells feature:"

1. You can cast it normally with a spell slot.
2. You can choose to cast a spell by spending a number of sorcery points equal to the spell's level.

With option 1, you follow all normal rules of spellcasting. You still use components, you can cast a spell with a slot higher than the spell normally uses. All the normal stuff. With option 2, you are never involving spell slots. Since you are not casting a spell using a slot that is of a higher level than the spell, the subordinate clause from above (the spell assumes the higher level . . .) is never triggered. There is nothing in Psionic Sorcery that specifically calls out this feature, so there is no specific to beat the general.

The Psionic Spell feature does not say, "you can replace spell slots with sorcery points," or that you can, "use Sorcery Points instead of Spell Slots," or any such variation. It specifically says, "you can cast [a spell from your Psionic Spells feature] by spending a number of sorcery points equal to the spell's level." If, for example, you are dealing with the Sleep spell, you are using a 1st-level spell. Strictly speaking, there is no such thing as a 3rd-level Sleep spell, but if a spellcaster chooses to cast a Sleep spell using a 3rd-level spell slot, it then becomes a 3rd-level spell. Only when cast in this way (with a higher-level slot) does it "[assume] the higher level for this casting." Not before and in no other condition, unless specifically called out as doing so. Other rules items (perhaps a "Sleep" version of the Staff of the Magi, or the spells or spell-like abilities of some hypothetical creature) could specifically call out a sleep spell cast at a level higher than first, but this Psionic Spell feature does not seem to have the verbiage required to do so.

(I might, if I were to allow a generous interpretation, allow a Psionic Sorcery casting of, for example, the sleep spell at a level equal to a slot that the character has and pay Sorcery Points in place of that higher-level slot, but that is clearly -not- Rules as Written.)

 

[Ovinomancer]

TL;DR: In order for specific to beat general, that specific must be specifically called out. Psionic Sorcery does not specifically call out that it would allow casting spells of a level other than the spell's (default) level. Allowing Psionic Sorcery to upcast at all seems to be against Rules as Written, and allowing it to upcast beyond the maximum spell slot available to the character is clearly against Rules as Intended.

Reasoning (Rules-Lawyer Mode):

Spoiler: From Casting a Spell at a Higher Level:

When a spellcaster casts a spell using a slot that is of a higher level than the spell, the spell assumes the higher level for that casting.

This states that, generally, the only way to access the "assumes the higher level for that casting" subordinate clause is for the spell to be cast "using a spell slot that is of a higher level than the spell." Any other way to access greater effects must address that specific rule (like, for example, the Staff of the Magi with its Fireball and Lightning Bolt effects.

Spoiler: From Psionic Sorcery:

Beginning at 6th level, when you cast any of the spells gained from your Psionic Spells feature, you can cast it by expending a spell slot as normal or by spending a number of sorcery points equal to the spell’s level. If you cast the spell using sorcery points, it requires no components.

This creates two options for when you cast a spell "gained from the Psionic Spells feature:"

1. You can cast it normally with a spell slot.
2. You can choose to cast a spell by spending a number of sorcery points equal to the spell's level.

With option 1, you follow all normal rules of spellcasting. You still use components, you can cast a spell with a slot higher than the spell normally uses. All the normal stuff. With option 2, you are never involving spell slots. Since you are not casting a spell using a slot that is of a higher level than the spell, the subordinate clause from above (the spell assumes the higher level . . .) is never triggered. There is nothing in Psionic Sorcery that specifically calls out this feature, so there is no specific to beat the general.

The Psionic Spell feature does not say, "you can replace spell slots with sorcery points," or that you can, "use Sorcery Points instead of Spell Slots," or any such variation. It specifically says, "you can cast [a spell from your Psionic Spells feature] by spending a number of sorcery points equal to the spell's level." If, for example, you are dealing with the Sleep spell, you are using a 1st-level spell. Strictly speaking, there is no such thing as a 3rd-level Sleep spell, but if a spellcaster chooses to cast a Sleep spell using a 3rd-level spell slot, it then becomes a 3rd-level spell. Only when cast in this way (with a higher-level slot) does it "[assume] the higher level for this casting." Not before and in no other condition, unless specifically called out as doing so. Other rules items (perhaps a "Sleep" version of the Staff of the Magi, or the spells or spell-like abilities of some hypothetical creature) could specifically call out a sleep spell cast at a level higher than first, but this Psionic Spell feature does not seem to have the verbiage required to do so.

(I might, if I were to allow a generous interpretation, allow a Psionic Sorcery casting of, for example, the sleep spell at a level equal to a slot that the character has and pay Sorcery Points in place of that higher-level slot, but that is clearly -not- Rules as Written.)

Weird that you're saying exactly what I was (and what Max said), but the OP liked your post. Still, good show!

 

[Hohige]

I still disagree.
Anyway I agreed that it could potentially broken The game.
So, i would not abuse It, never. Maybe level 6 or 7 spell level.
So, Its a good question to jeremy answer.

Still, I cant see any build that can compete with my build.

 

[Dausuul]

Forgot Spell slots, Its gone. Now Its Sorcery Point equal its level, Its assumes level 6.
Specific beat general.
Specific beat general.

Rule that exists beats rule that doesn't exist.
Rule that exists beats rule that doesn't exist.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Not true. There's passive Perception and Investigation. No reason why there cannot be passive Insight.



People acting outside of normal expected behavior patterns is evidence of mind control.

Depends on how common the ability is. Even then, people act out of character. Other people aren't actually that good at spotting it unless it's really obvious, often taking a very long time to spot out of character behavior as having any significance.

 

[Hohige]

Is any build competitive against Aberrant Mind Sorceror?

 

[Maxperson]

Is any build competitive against Aberrant Mind Sorceror?
View attachment 128595

Hard to be competitive against a build that doesn't follow RAW.

 

[Umbran]

Depends on how common the ability is. Even then, people act out of character. Other people aren't actually that good at spotting it unless it's really obvious, often taking a very long time to spot out of character behavior as having any significance.

Just to be clear - I said, "is evidence". Not, "is conclusive evidence of...."

Because, normally one takes a whole bunch of pieces of evidence, and weeds through them, and sees if, all together, they reasonably indicate a conclusion. When the Scooby Gang sits down and tries to figure things out, they could reasonably say, "Yeah, and Farmer Jones really was acting strangely, you know, attaching you with a pitchfork when earlier this afternoon you'd shared an ale with him peacably..." along on the stack with all the other bits of strangeness they may have noticed.

This would be one piece. Just one. Not the whole shebang.