D&D 5E Accessing Divine Magic on non-native Material Planes

[Sadras]

1. The gods' power already reaches across planes, right? Like, the gods are mostly on the Outer Planes, and you're usually on the Material Plane. So why would it be any different?

2. In the 5e cosmology, all the different worlds exist within "the" Material Plane. There are no alternate Material Planes mentioned in the books.

3. The 5e Dungeon Master's Guide has a very long section on the multiverse, and it describes no alteration to Cleric features when traveling to different planes. To quote the book, it recommends the planes to have "one simple trait that players notice, that doesn't create too much complication at the gaming table, and that's easy to remember." (p. 43)

I guess it all depends on how you want to portray the specific world(s), but there is nothing in the 5e rulebooks that implies you should mess with a Cleric's powers when they go to a different plane.

Sure canon doesn't distinguish, but personally I prefer to view that the Immortals of Mystara and the Deities of Forgotten Realms etc having a "leg-up" within their own designated setting and less of an influence within others. It's flavourful and there is the added incentive for the party to return home.

 

[Shemeska]

I suppose it depends on how you define the multiverse and different settings within in. Classically they're not different Prime Material Planes - there's only one, and the various settings are just different planets within it. Mystara from (non A)D&D wasn't originally part of the Great Wheel cosmos, but it was later brought in and incorporated as again a world in the one Prime Material Plane.

Over the years (even within the same edition) you've had some occasionally very awkward and loose usage of the terminology, with some authors referring to different settings as being entirely different Material Planes, planets within the common shared Material Plane, or saying one when they mean the other. Within 5e I'm under the impression that there's only a single shared Material Plane since they're ostensibly trying to call back that more classic 2e shared cosmos feel.

I would have clerical magic work the same regardless, possibly with it not being granted by their actual deity, but by proxy from the closest 'local' deity that matches their divine patron.

But as always, go with what fits your campaign best.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

I am generally of the opinion that, Darksun aside, a cleric can get spells from his/her deity anywhere. That being said, converting a cleric is a coup, even for ideologically or thematically connected deities (who might be suspicious of their fellow deities trying to establish a beach head in new territory), so offers to convert to the local deity should be both noticeable and dangerous to turn down.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

As a Cleric you are a conduit of your god's influence everywhere you go.

 

[Dit464]

The thing is that the Immortals are supposed to be omnipotent beings, why is it so hard to think that they can't influence the other planes. The only Immortals/Gods that wouldn't want to influence are those that would solely want to exist in the material plane, like the gods/immortals that preside over nature. This would be the easiest choice.

And I don't understand why everyone is wanting to suggest that they should follow the native gods of the realm, but that would be taken as heresy and they would be punished by their previous deity, whether it involves them sending envoys to murder you when you get back to the material plane, perhaps the previous gods would make you denounce the other planes god and follow them, to a certain extent of course. This could be more what your looking for but this could keep divine casters out of these planes or having them change deities as soon as they enter a plane and are powerless in that plane until they change deities.

 

[Sadras]

The thing is that the Immortals are supposed to be omnipotent beings, why is it so hard to think that they can't influence the other planes.

It is absolutely not hard to think that, but I would like to run the divine influence different to canon whereby the immortals/deities presiding over a setting/world/planet have weaker influence in non-native settings. Perhaps in my multiverse an accord was reached between Immortal/Deities/Pantheons of different settings where such a limitation was imposed.

And I don't understand why everyone is wanting to suggest that they should follow the native gods of the realm....(snip)...This could be more what your looking for...

I also do not understand why others suggested it, that is not what I was requesting, however if you read my follow up posts you would know this is not what I am looking for - specifically post #12.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

The party might find itself forced onto a non-native setting. They are originally from the Mystara setting who have Immortals instead of deities. I would like to play true to the new setting, whichever it may be, so I was wondering on your thoughts regarding divine spellcasters (cleric, paladins...etc): How do they access their divine powers/spells if they are on a different material plane?

...

So how does a cleric now cast spells and use his/her divine powers? Does anyone know of a creative idea as well as a mechanical system whereby through an additional cost to the cleric he/she is able to access their powers/spells?

The group strives for a sense of realism/grittiness so true balance however is not an issue with us, but I would also prefer not to seriously gimp the cleric for an unknown period of time.

EDIT: Apologies, I was not clear above given my wording, this is not about following canon, but a flavourful way to, subtly through the mechanics, reflect the implied 'distance' between cleric and the immortal/deity he worships and the hardship in refreshing his divine abilities when he travels to different settings on the material plane.
TheCosmicKid came up with some great suggestions I intend to use.

In 2e you had to cast a (2nd-level if I recall) spell each day to contact your deity in order to be able to prepare spells at all. 2e also had a whole lot of other restrictions when moving around the planes or the crystal spheres. This was in harmony with AD&D's general restrictive and punitive way of limiting things.

None of those restrictions are a part of 5e philosophy.

I'd say that if you are in a crystal sphere where your deity isn't known, you might not be able to use the 10th-level requesting a miracle power, and/or you might have a chance of failure when casting a commune spell. Beyond that...it's all in the role-playing. Maybe the DM decides that your deity doesn't hear your prayers, or that they take the long scenic voicemail route and get heard a month late. But spellcasting ought to work perfectly no matter where you are--it's a core feature of your class.

I would suggest strongly thinking through any limitations you create and weighing them against how 5e philosophy deals with other things converted from prior editions. If you do decide to go punitive, realize that you are making an exception to how 5e normally works, and make sure it is worth it to your game. As a player, it would have to be a pretty good reason for me to not get a sour taste in my mouth about that (and I'd definitely want to know ahead of time during character creation).

Clearly their divine abilities are granted by the Immortals who are not the 'deities' in this other setting (Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, Dark Sun...etc) they will find themselves in.

An utterly meaningless distinction that 5e should toss.

Immortals: Phenomenal cosmic power
Deities: Phenomenal cosmic power

Immortals: Portfolios, areas of control/interest
Deities: Portfolios, areas of control/interest

Immortals: Hear prayers and give spellcasting to followers
Deities: Hear prayers and give spellcasting to followers

Immortals: Have inconsistent travel restrictions about visiting the mortal world
Deities: Have inconsistent travel restrictions about visiting the mortal world

Immortals: All (theoretically, but not proven) used to be mortals
Deities: At least some used to be mortals

Immortals: Include among their Thor, Osiris, etc
Deities: Include among their number Thor, Osiris, etc

It's a completely arbitrary semantic distinction that only exists because BECMI did things a bit differently than AD&D. It should have been reconciled in 2e when they converted Mystara to AD&D, but it wasn't. I recommend you utterly scrap it and consider them to be the same thing.

 

[Sadras]

I'd say that if you are in a crystal sphere where your deity isn't known, you might not be able to use the 10th-level requesting a miracle power, and/or you might have a chance of failure when casting a commune spell. Beyond that...it's all in the role-playing. Maybe the DM decides that your deity doesn't hear your prayers, or that they take the long scenic voicemail route and get heard a month late. But spellcasting ought to work perfectly no matter where you are--it's a core feature of your class.

I'm afraid this doesn't make much sense to me. Why would divine spellcasting work but these two exclusive divine abilities not work?

I would suggest strongly thinking through any limitations you create and weighing them against how 5e philosophy deals with other things converted from prior editions. If you do decide to go punitive, realize that you are making an exception to how 5e normally works, and make sure it is worth it to your game. As a player, it would have to be a pretty good reason for me to not get a sour taste in my mouth about that (and I'd definitely want to know ahead of time during character creation).

Okay good news is, I'm not an ass. An extra hour of prayers to obtain one's spells is a flavourful change, and reflects the inconvenience of the new setting its not exactly punitive. The party isn't just gonna up and leave the cleric because he delays them by an hour. Sure in a tight spot, it will mean the party has less resources - but it doesn't cripple the character.

As for how 5e normally works - you do realise that the mechanics are just a guide, right? And lastly, not all house-rules are born prior the campaign starts. I'm not that good.

And just to stress again, I'm not an ass.

 

[dmnqwk]

Here's an interesting idea you could use.

As it turns out, the Immortals don't actually grant the divine power, they merely help shape it into something safe. In truth, their Homeworld is a chaotic font of spiritual energies which are all derived from the last, true God who was driven Mad by loneliness. As such, all Divine spells cause Wild Magic surges, were it not for the efforts of the Immortals.

Because the Immortals' power cannot extend to other Spheres of Influence, when the PCs arrive they find their magic is unpredictable and chaotic in nature, something they never experienced before, because the Deity is still powerful enough to grant them access to their spells but it is no longer placated and shaped by the Immortal's hand.

In game terms, every time a Divine spell is cast on another world, there is a 10% chance per spell level of a Wild Surge occurring. For Cantrips, because they can be used infinitely, I would allow them to function without Wild Surges simply to prevent someone abusively trying to get a surge, or simply to reduce the number of Surges possible in a day.

 

[Sadras]

Love the concept [MENTION=6804204]dmnqwk[/MENTION]