Advancing a Cockatrice to Large Size

[EPRock]

Using the Monster Advancement rules in the [3.5] Monster Manual the HD goes from 6-8 (small) and 9-15 (medium), to make the Cockatrice Large it would need to be at least 16 hd.

So following the progression rules here is what I came up with

Cockatrice, Large Magical Beast, CR: 10, HD 16d10+83; hp 171; Init +2 (+2 Dex); Spd 40 ft., Fly 120 ft. (clumsy); AC 13 (-1 Size, +2 Natural, +2 Dex), touch 11, flat-footed 11; Base Atk +16; Grp +24; Atk +20 melee (2d6+6 bite plus petrification); Full Atk +20 melee (2d6+6 bite plus petrification); Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.; SA Petrification; SQ Darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; AL N; Sv Fort +15, Ref +12, Will +6; Str 18, Dex 14, Con 20, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 9
Skills/Feats: Listen +13, Spot +12; Alertness, Dodge, Weapon Focus (bite), Improved Natural Attack (bite), Ability Focus (Petrification), Toughness
Petrification (Su): Creatures hit by a cockatrice's bite attack must succeed on a DC 25 Fortitutde save or instantly turn to stone. The save DC is Constitution-based.

[edit to correct the Petrification DC]
[added CR]

 

[Ottergame]

*fights the urge to make a joke about wanting a large *

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

"damn, that giant made him rock-hard!"

AR

 

[Vurt]

From the SRD under Improving Monsters:

Animal, magical beast, monstrous humanoid +1 per 3 HD added

So I guess that would make it CR 6-7. Seems a little low for that serious Fort DC save (shouldn't it be 19? (base 12, +5 from Con boost, +2 from Ability Focus)) but I suppose you can season that chicken to taste.

Cheers,
Vurt

 

[EPRock]

SA Difficulties are set as follows

In the section "Calculating Saving Throw DC's"

10 + 1/2 hd + stat mod + bonuses

10 + 8 + 5 + 2

Insane chicken

 

[Vurt]

Nasty! That is one bad bird!

Noticed that the same table in the SRD gives another +1 CR for advancing to Large size, and I'd probably go with another +2 CR for its special attacks being upped. That would put you at around the CR 9-10 range, which I think is reasonable, although that DC 25 save or calcify makes me want to eyeball the final CR up a few more. After all, your average raging 10th level barbarian would fail it's save a little over 50% of the time!

Cheers,
Vurt

 

[heliopolix]

As i see it:

Original creature - Small Mag Beast, 5 HD, CR 3

Advanced to 16 HD in steps, noting significant changes (aside from increased BAB, Skills, saves, etc), trying to match EPRock's advancement as close as possible, noting where I was unsure or differed:

From Small to Large gain the following:
+12 Str, -4 Dex, +6 Con, +2 Nat. Armor, -2 Atk/AC. Land speed changes to 40, Fly speed to 120(poor). Bite chages from 1d4 to 1d8.

New ability scores after size:
Str 18
Dex 13
Con 17

For advancing from 5 to 16 HD gain the following:

3 ability advances (8th, 12th, 16th), I put all into Con, (I'm unsure as to how your Cockatrice has 20 con and 14 Dex, but oh well)

4 feats (6th, 9th, 12th, 15th): Ability Focus(petrification), Improved Natural Wpn(Bite to 2d6), Improved Natural Armor (I think is more useful than Toughness), Weapon focus(bite)

Final creature according to my calculations:

Large Magical Beast
HD 16d10 + 80(168)
Init: +1
Speed: 40ft / fly 120ft (poor)
AC: 13 (+1 dex, +3 Nat Armor, -1 size) [T - 10, FF - 12]
Base Attack/Grapple: +16/+24
Attack: Bite +20 (+16BAB +4str -1 size +1focus) melee (2d6 + 6, plus petrification) [since its Str now out-weighs its Dex, it doesnt use its Weapon Finesse feat anymore]
Space/Reach: 10ft/10ft
Special Attacks: Petrification DC 25
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60ft
Saves: For 15, Ref 11, Will 6
Abilities: Str 18, Dex 13, Con 20, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 9
Skills: Listen +11, Spot +11
Feats: Alertness, Dodge, Weapon Finesse(Bite), Weapon Focus(Bite), Ability Focus(Petrification), Improved Natural Weapon(Bite), Improved Natural Armor
CR:11 ( base 3, +3 from advancing 11 HD as a Magical Beast, +1 from becoming large,+2 significant special attack, +2 adjustment by me)

*edit* It merits the increase from being a CR 9 because the bite attack will hit a PC a round, and it forces the DC 25 For Save each time it hits.

Just for show, I ran it against a Fire Giant (CR 10) and it won (giant statue), and against a eight headed hydra (CR 7) and it lost horribly - the 8 attacks at +11 for 1d10+4 (average 76 dam/ round vs ac 13) tore it to peices in 2 rounds.

Anyways, thats my take on this.

 

[heliopolix]

*EDIT* Forum hiccup double post

 

[heliopolix]

*EDIT* Triple Post.

 

[Sir Whiskers]

Using the Monster Advancement rules in the [3.5] Monster Manual the HD goes from 6-8 (small) and 9-15 (medium), to make the Cockatrice Large it would need to be at least 16 hd.

So following the progression rules here is what I came up with

Cockatrice, Large Magical Beast, CR: ???, HD 16d10+83; hp 171; Init +2 (+2 Dex); Spd 40 ft., Fly 120 ft. (clumsy); AC 13 (-1 Size, +2 Natural, +2 Dex), touch 11, flat-footed 11; Base Atk +16; Grp +24; Atk +19 melee (2d6+6 bite plus petrification); Full Atk +19 melee (2d6+6 bite plus petrification); Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.; SA Petrification; SQ Darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; AL N; Sv Fort +15, Ref +12, Will +6; Str 18, Dex 14, Con 20, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 9
Skills/Feats: Listen +13, Spot +12; Alertness, Dodge, Weapon Focus (bite), Improved Natural Attack (bite), Ability Focus (Petrification), Toughness
Petrification (Su): Creatures hit by a cockatrice's bite attack must succeed on a DC 25 Fortitutde save or instantly turn to stone. The save DC is Constitution-based.

I am unsure what the Challenge rating of this creature should be?

[edit to correct the Petrification DC]

Compared to the Gorgon (CR 8):
HP: 171 vs. 85
Init: +2 vs. +4
Spd: 40 ft., fly 120 ft. vs. 30 ft.
AC: 13 vs. 20
BAB/Grapple: +16/+24 vs. +8/+17
Attack: +19, 2d6+6 vs. +12, 1d8+7
Reach: 10 ft. vs. 5 ft.
SA: petrification (DC 25) vs. petrification breath (DC 19)

Based on this comparison, I'd rate the Large Cockatrice as CR 10. It's hit points, BAB, and DC are comparable to other CR 10 creatures. It's AC is low, but 171 is a lot of hit points. The only area the gorgon really overshadows the cockatrice is the breath weapon, whereas the cockatrice's petrification is tied to its bite attack.

BTW, you might consider changing the reach to 5 ft. Not all Large creatures have 10 ft. reach (see the Gorgon), and losing reach would tone it down slightly. If you do so, I'd consider CR 9 (though I think it's on the high side of CR 9 even then). All IMHO, of course.

Nasty creature. I hope the party knows what they're getting into, or has a lot of stone to flesh scrolls...