(Adventure) Trek to the Vinyard...

Thels

First Post
Haggling is okay. You could get a variable return for your items. I'm just saying that anything you sell without investing time to look for an interested buyer is probably gonna put you off with 50% of the market value, since you sell it to some trader, not someone who needs it.
 

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Arken

Explorer
Keia said:
Right now I'm going with a level of fighter after my rogue and probably alternating on occasion. I'm really interested in being a smith and perhaps crafting magic arms and arms for myself and others some day. Though he would need yet another class (a spell casting one) then there's the troubles of multi-classing. Suggestions are always accepted!!

Keia


Well as you *are* asking for suggestions. I know many people want to go their own ways and strike away from the people in this first group but my character (straight wizard) was going to set up a magical smithy and shop. My character isn't exactly specialised at the forge side of things though so if you were interested in some sort of partnership in item making then I would be more than happy to talk to you about it. You might not have to divert so heavily into a spellcasting class then and could concentrate on feats or a PrC that was specialised in item creation without spell caster levels. Totally up to you of course.

PS. again not trying to get you involved if you don't want to be but a not to Velmont and Keia, the next part of this story arch is unfolding in the red dragon in if you wanted to be included, jsut telling you incase you didn't see.
 
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Uriel

Living EN World Judge
Thels said:
Haggling is okay. You could get a variable return for your items. I'm just saying that anything you sell without investing time to look for an interested buyer is probably gonna put you off with 50% of the market value, since you sell it to some trader, not someone who needs it.

Here is what I just sent CS, waiting on his suggestions.


You can either take half the value of an item or try your hand at Trade/Haggling. A player's Haggling (Prof-Trader) is compared to it, with various DCs/results giving differing values. This should be rolled by the Judge governing the game.
That way an item might bring half, full, perhaps even more than market if there is a desire for it and a lack of items of it's nature. The Judge can assign a modifier based on the availability of items of it's nature and/or the skill of the Trader buying the item. This is a rough draft...

HAGGLING CHART

1-5: Not only are the merchants unwilling to buy your item, but you may not attempt to sell it again for a week's time, as you garnered a rather bad name as a Trader, due to your brusk and rude manner.

6-10: 25% Market Value: Your poor trading got you far less than you wanted, you should have taken their original offer.

11-15: 50% Market Value. this is what any sensible merchant expects to pay for things, and his sense wonout over your silver-tongue.

16-20: 75% Market Value. Congratulations, you know when to keep your mouth shut and when to point out the positive features of an item.

21-25: 100% Market Value. Now then,the Merchants could learn a thing or two from you.
Perhaps you are in the wrong Trade,friend...

26-30:125% Market Value. They never knew what hit them.

31-35:150% Market Value. You just made the deal of the century.

36+: 200% Market Value. They should have payed you what you asked for the first time.


Example: Rolgrad has a +1 Short Spear that he wishes to sell, as well as a Potion of Resist Elements 10 (Cold), and a Ring of Protectin +1(he already hasa +2 Ring).

The Judge deems that the spear is a common enought item,no Mod.
the potion is less useful, as Rolgrad is currently in a desert climate, and buyers are less likely to need such a Potion (-2 to roll). The Ring is a highly desired item, as it benefits pretty much everyone who might come across it (+3 to roll).

The Judge checks (Using Rolgrad's Trade skill:+6)

Result for the Spear Skill6+roll12=18.75% value gained for the Short Spear (1726GP)

Result for the Potion Skill6,minus2,+roll6 =10. Sure enough, the potion only garnered a quarter value (75GP).

result for the Ring Skill6+3Mod,+12 Roll= 21.(2,000GP gained).

All in all, Rolgrad gained 3801GP for items listing at 4601 GP.

If you don't like an offer, you can wait for a better one, though you gain a cumulative -1 Mod each time you turn an offer down, as word gets around about your trading practices.

You can always just put the item up on the Trading Post and hope that another PC wants it and will pay more than half, ortrade something good for it.

All-in-all, I think it works quite well.
I am more than willing to roll all trade transactions, btw, so if other Judges don't want to, I am available.

The case of PCs using Magic to affect this (Charm person,suggestion.whatever) arrises, though such practices would eventually get around and the appropriate folks would most likelt pay a visit (a less than pleasant one) to the offending party.
 

Thels

First Post
Uriel> I like it. It's as I said it should be. If you don't want to go through troubles, you get half price. Only, it's a wisdombased skill instead of a charisma based skill :(

Okay, how about this. We sell all unwanted items at half price. If anyone thinks he can do better, he can take the item for half price and then try to sell it himself. Any gain/loss is entirely for that character.

If two or more people are interested in the same item, the 2nd one to show his interest must bid a price more than half the item's cost. Then the 1st person can either bid higher again or let go, etc... This raises the value of the item, and thus the total value, and thus the amount of gold everyone's getting.

Money: 6048 GP
Warhammer +1: 1156 GP
Potion of Resist Energy: 150 GP
Potion of Bull's Strength: 150 GP
Potion of Cure Moderate Wounds: 150 GP

Total: 7654 GP
Per person: 1525 GP
Remaining 4 GP

So everyone's getting at least 1525 GP out of this. You can use that money to buy any of the above items.
 


Uriel

Living EN World Judge
Thels said:
Uriel> I like it. It's as I said it should be. If you don't want to go through troubles, you get half price. Only, it's a wisdombased skill instead of a charisma based skill :(

Okay, how about this. We sell all unwanted items at half price. If anyone thinks he can do better, he can take the item for half price and then try to sell it himself. Any gain/loss is entirely for that character.

If two or more people are interested in the same item, the 2nd one to show his interest must bid a price more than half the item's cost. Then the 1st person can either bid higher again or let go, etc... This raises the value of the item, and thus the total value, and thus the amount of gold everyone's getting.

Money: 6048 GP
Warhammer +1: 1156 GP
Potion of Resist Energy: 150 GP
Potion of Bull's Strength: 150 GP
Potion of Cure Moderate Wounds: 150 GP

Total: 7654 GP
Per person: 1525 GP
Remaining 4 GP

So everyone's getting at least 1525 GP out of this. You can use that money to buy any of the above items.

Yes, a Wisdom based one, though also a Skill based one, and everyone can take Prof-Trading as a Class, I believe. Even with an average roll (11) and a modest skill 3 or 4, you will still get the half price.
Maybe I should repost this in general Discussion and see what folks think.

Off-Topic:Going to sleep in about 10 minutes, might have to continue this conversation tomorrow.
 
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Thels

First Post
Skill based is good, but maybe it's better to make a single 'Trader' skill that can be used untrained, is based on Cha and is a class skill to everyone than to use Profession (Trader) which is basically a single new skill too.
 

Uriel

Living EN World Judge
Thels said:
Skill based is good, but maybe it's better to make a single 'Trader' skill that can be used untrained, is based on Cha and is a class skill to everyone than to use Profession (Trader) which is basically a single new skill too.


I just reposted it in general Discussion with the following addition.

A person's base Wisdom or Charisma mod can be used in lieu of the SKill if they do not possess it.

Or, because of the liquid/living nature of LEW, we could invent a Haggle Skill (Wis or Cha).
 

Keia

I aim to misbehave
Arken said:
Well as you *are* asking for suggestions. I know many people want to go their own ways and strike away from the people in this first group but my character (straight wizard) was going to set up a magical smithy and shop. My character isn't exactly specialised at the forge side of things though so if you were interested in some sort of partnership in item making then I would be more than happy to talk to you about it. You might not have to divert so heavily into a spellcasting class then and could concentrate on feats or a PrC that was specialised in item creation without spell caster levels. Totally up to you of course.

PS. again not trying to get you involved if you don't want to be but a not to Velmont and Keia, the next part of this story arch is unfolding in the red dragon in if you wanted to be included, jsut telling you incase you didn't see.


I'm interested, and heading into the tavern . . . maybe you guys can find me after your private meeting. :)

Keia
 

Velmont

First Post
Doh! I'm suppose to be a trader and I havn't the skill Prof(Trader). Ok, in my RL games, we had the tendency to use diplomacy for haggling, so it didn't come in my mind to take that skill.

I have a suugestion for the skill:

Haggling (Cha)

Trading is an art. It is a discussion between two groups, buyer and sellers, who argue on the price of an item. You must be convincing on your argument, but you must be able to see trought the arguments of your opponent to be able to know hat is a truth and what is an half truth.

Each time you want to sell an item, you must do an opposed Haggling test. The result give how much more the seller can get from an item. The base price the depend on the condition of the item. For newly crafted item, the based price is 100% of the price. For a used item, the based price is 50% of the price. If two players or some roleplay is made, the base price is determine at the moment of the selling. Both opponent must agree for a price, and if one want to haggle, than the roll must be made by both.

Special: Having 5 ranks in Bluff give you +2 synergy bonus to Haggling, as you can be more convincing. If you have 5 ranks in Sense Motive, you get +2 synergy bonus to Haggling, as you can see more easily into opponents arguments.

Haggling can be use untrained and is a class skill abilty to Rogues and Bards. Clerics with the Trickery domain gain Haggling as a class skill.
 

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