D&D General Alignment: the problem is Chaos

[Hexmage-EN]

I kind of wish D&D would just replace the lore for yugoloths with something more like the daemons from Pathfinder. They're a way more interesting take on Neutral Evil fiends. Heck, even the sorrowsworn would make for more interesting Neutral Evil fiends.

I'm amused that they brought back yugoloths into 5E just to demote them in the lore from "secretly the first fiends" to "Asmodeus paid some night hags to invent yugoloths for some reason".

I do have my own answer for what that reason was (Asmodeus and Graz'zt are secretly allies and the creation of the yugoloths are part of a very long-term plan to unite all fiends against the forces of Good), but I don't find yugoloths interesting enough to ever follow through with it.

Well, okay, I do like merrenoloths if only because they're low-CR evil fiends that are so awesome with ships that they can magically ensure they cannot sink even if the hull is breached. That's amazing enough that even good characters would be tempted to hire a merrenoloth for safe travel in the Lower Planes.

 

[Sithlord]

I kind of wish D&D would just replace the lore for yugoloths with something more like the daemons from Pathfinder. They're a way more interesting take on Neutral Evil fiends. Heck, even the sorrowsworn would make for more interesting Neutral Evil fiends.

I'm amused that they brought back yugoloths into 5E just to demote them in the lore from "secretly the first fiends" to "Asmodeus paid some night hags to invent yugoloths for some reason".

I do have my own answer for what that reason was (Asmodeus and Graz'zt are secretly allies and the creation of the yugoloths are part of a very long-term plan to unite all fiends against the forces of Good), but I don't find yugoloths interesting enough to ever follow through with it.

Well, okay, I do like merrenoloths if only because they're low-CR evil fiends that are so awesome with ships that they can magically ensure they cannot sink even if the hull is breached. That's amazing enough that even good characters would be tempted to hire a merrenoloth for safe travel in the Lower Planes.

Planescape yugoloths are my favorite. I love their lore. To each their own.

 

[bloodtide]

The problem is both Law and Chaos get mixed up, even in lots of offical rule books. Law is not "obeying the law", Cosmic Law, or better Cosmic Order is structure, orginization and planning. In nature it is thing like honeybees making perfect hexagons vs mice just making a mess. Or how weather is just about 100% pure random, as after all forecasting is another word for guessing....but the phases of the Moon are 100% exact on a set unchanging cycle.

When you get to people it is someone who carries around food and kitchen items and plans out ever future meal vs someone who just finds food when they are hungry.

 

[SkidAce]

That chart is no different than the standard nine alignments. It just removes the N from the neutral portion that would still be there. NG is Good that is neutral with respect to lawful or chaotic, or G.

I know, but by removing the N, it keys players in to the concept.

You are Good. Good is the goal. etc.

Puts the Good front and center. Its an interesting though experiment, I actually have no problems with aligment as is, its always been "guidelines".

 

[ph0rk]

That's one of the most compelling reasons to play 5e. The alignment can easily be completely ignored.

I think they should have gone further in terms of stripping it then.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I think they should have gone further in terms of stripping it then.

Sure. It should have been just completely removed. Considering that newer stat blocks don't seem to include anymore, it is hopefully gone in the next edition.

 

[Sithlord]

I think they should have gone further in terms of stripping it then.

Why? People that didn’t like it primarily ignored it in previous editions and it was there for those that liked it. Oh wait we were so obsessed with playing like everyone else that we could pick and choose the rules we like. Sorry I forgot how so many are obsessed that everyone must play the same.

 

[ph0rk]

Why? People that didn’t like it primarily ignored it in previous editions and it was there for those that liked it. Oh wait we were so obsessed with playing like everyone else that we could pick and choose the rules we like. Sorry I forgot how so many are obsessed that everyone must play the same.

Because we can’t pick and choose which rules we like because there are no longer any meaningful rules related to alignment in 5e.

I‘d have been fine with an optional system that mimicked how alignment worked in previous editions, but it is not there.

 

[Oofta]

Devils and demons being different things is one of those D&D weirdnesses that just seem unnecessary and thematically confused.

I think it's awesome that there's a difference why we don't just have "fiends". They feel different and have a purpose. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[Sithlord]

Because we can’t pick and choose which rules we like because there are no longer any meaningful rules related to alignment in 5e.

I‘d have been fine with an optional system that mimicked how alignment worked in previous editions, but it is not there.

Why not Just use what was written in a previous edition then?