Alternate epic level rules
- Thread starter Ricochet
- Start date
Crothian
First Post
well, there are only two publisherd products that cover alterantive methods of 20+ levels. THe first is Advanced Players Handbook by Sword and Sorcery. It is more like the old High Level book for second edition if you know of that., It taks the base classes and takes them each up to 30. It has more XP required to gain these levels and is not made to go higher then 30th level.
as a simple alternate rule, just use the rulkes as is and expand the XP needed for each level. Have the core classes stop at 20th level requiring people to multi class.
Then there is the Book of Immortals by Mongoose. I have no read this one, but it seems to be more like the old Immortal box set for basic D&D.
as a simple alternate rule, just use the rulkes as is and expand the XP needed for each level. Have the core classes stop at 20th level requiring people to multi class.
Then there is the Book of Immortals by Mongoose. I have no read this one, but it seems to be more like the old Immortal box set for basic D&D.
shady
Explorer
The forthcoming Arcana Evolved will apparently go to 25th level on alternate lines. Interesting design notes on that specific subject here:
http://www.montecook.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?mc_diary_36
Also I think the Everquest setting maps to 60th level or so, along the lines of the actual computer game.
http://www.montecook.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?mc_diary_36
Also I think the Everquest setting maps to 60th level or so, along the lines of the actual computer game.
Quickleaf
Legend
I've only ran one campaign that approached epic level, and even then the PCs stopped just after 20th level. There are several fun things you can do at this point that don't require you to buy another product, though none of these answer the question "What happens after 20th level?" Instead they offer story reasons why the PCs don't go past 20th level:
* Heirs & Apprentices: Have the players take on the roles of the PCs' heirs (or apprentices if the PCs don't have children). This is really fun - you have all this rich material to weave into the new characters' backgrounds. For example, if their father was a great swordsman, perhaps the 1st-level mage son has some fencing skills, speaks as a fencer, and is quick to defend his father. He does everything he can to impress his father, but never quite measures up.
* Alternate Form: Have the high-level PCs be shifted into the bodies of commoners or even animals. Perhaps they are cursed, or perhaps they willingly undergoe the transformation as part of an elaborate surveillance project (but nobody told me we couldn't reverse it!). They now advance in racial levels according to their new forms. Admitedly while the "donkey racial class" may not sound glamorous, it could be a fun chance to create a Shrek-like character. Of course, gaining levels as a manticore or even a vampire or demon could be quite interesting, not to mention harrowing. The longer the character lives the more evil deeds they are likely to commit. Can the good they do overshadow the evil? Alternately the PCs may become angelic beings, torn between their mortal natures and divine selves (as in the movie Wings of Desire remade as City of Angels). Can the PCs cut it as celestial agents or will they fall?
* Amnesia: Strip them of everything they own and give them amnesia. Perhaps they are wrongly imprisoned (as in the Count of Monte Cristo) and forget their old abilities in jail. When they finally do escape they must relearn and remake themselves to get revenge on whoever sent them into prison/exile. Alternately, they may be in a violent shipwreck and are found in a fishing village. The amnesiacs PC are raised by the local fishermen until one day the village is attacked and the PCs discover they are much more than they thought before.
* Members of a prestige class: Design a prestige class into which all the PCs will enter, like "Servants of the Elf Queen." This prestige class should account for all types of characters. Of course, once the PCs get all 10 levels of the PrC you are faced with your original question...
* Past Life or Ghost-Possession: The PCs delve into memories of their past lives, or find themselves to be possessed by ghosts. The campaign must focus on discovering the true nature of their past selves/ the ghosts living inside them. Each PC chooses a new character class and multiclasses in it. A major theme of this adventure would be uniting their past and present selves, or coming to terms with their ghosts.
* Light & Shadow Selves: PCs are cleaved in two through powerful magic. One side is their light nature (which the player takes control of). Their other side is their shadow nature, which is played by another player at certain points during the game. Thus each player in the group controls 2 characters - their own, and another player's shadow. Divide the character's levels in half between the light and shadow selves. The goal of the campaign is to find a way to unify the disparate parts. Along the way the PCs may flee from their shadow selves, have to answer for crimes committed by the shadow self, or hunt their shadow self to kill it.
* Curse: Personally, I don't like this option, but if done artfully it could work. The PCs are cursed by someone who has been harmed by their ambition. Should they ever show ambition or pride they risk transforming into an evil beast. One way to run this is to force any PC wishing to advance to take 5 levels in a "cursed" class before advancing. However, each level of the class makes them less and less human & more bestial and savage. Ultimately, the PCs must find the hag/demi-god/demon who cursed them and petition to have the curse lifted.
Cheers!
* Heirs & Apprentices: Have the players take on the roles of the PCs' heirs (or apprentices if the PCs don't have children). This is really fun - you have all this rich material to weave into the new characters' backgrounds. For example, if their father was a great swordsman, perhaps the 1st-level mage son has some fencing skills, speaks as a fencer, and is quick to defend his father. He does everything he can to impress his father, but never quite measures up.
* Alternate Form: Have the high-level PCs be shifted into the bodies of commoners or even animals. Perhaps they are cursed, or perhaps they willingly undergoe the transformation as part of an elaborate surveillance project (but nobody told me we couldn't reverse it!). They now advance in racial levels according to their new forms. Admitedly while the "donkey racial class" may not sound glamorous, it could be a fun chance to create a Shrek-like character. Of course, gaining levels as a manticore or even a vampire or demon could be quite interesting, not to mention harrowing. The longer the character lives the more evil deeds they are likely to commit. Can the good they do overshadow the evil? Alternately the PCs may become angelic beings, torn between their mortal natures and divine selves (as in the movie Wings of Desire remade as City of Angels). Can the PCs cut it as celestial agents or will they fall?
* Amnesia: Strip them of everything they own and give them amnesia. Perhaps they are wrongly imprisoned (as in the Count of Monte Cristo) and forget their old abilities in jail. When they finally do escape they must relearn and remake themselves to get revenge on whoever sent them into prison/exile. Alternately, they may be in a violent shipwreck and are found in a fishing village. The amnesiacs PC are raised by the local fishermen until one day the village is attacked and the PCs discover they are much more than they thought before.
* Members of a prestige class: Design a prestige class into which all the PCs will enter, like "Servants of the Elf Queen." This prestige class should account for all types of characters. Of course, once the PCs get all 10 levels of the PrC you are faced with your original question...
* Past Life or Ghost-Possession: The PCs delve into memories of their past lives, or find themselves to be possessed by ghosts. The campaign must focus on discovering the true nature of their past selves/ the ghosts living inside them. Each PC chooses a new character class and multiclasses in it. A major theme of this adventure would be uniting their past and present selves, or coming to terms with their ghosts.
* Light & Shadow Selves: PCs are cleaved in two through powerful magic. One side is their light nature (which the player takes control of). Their other side is their shadow nature, which is played by another player at certain points during the game. Thus each player in the group controls 2 characters - their own, and another player's shadow. Divide the character's levels in half between the light and shadow selves. The goal of the campaign is to find a way to unify the disparate parts. Along the way the PCs may flee from their shadow selves, have to answer for crimes committed by the shadow self, or hunt their shadow self to kill it.
* Curse: Personally, I don't like this option, but if done artfully it could work. The PCs are cursed by someone who has been harmed by their ambition. Should they ever show ambition or pride they risk transforming into an evil beast. One way to run this is to force any PC wishing to advance to take 5 levels in a "cursed" class before advancing. However, each level of the class makes them less and less human & more bestial and savage. Ultimately, the PCs must find the hag/demi-god/demon who cursed them and petition to have the curse lifted.
Cheers!
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Man-thing
First Post
Crothian said:
The Book of the Immortal does have a very Immortals Box Set feel to it. In fact, the author had mentions that he drew inspiration from that original work.
I love the book. It is not an epic rules set in the strictest set but a companion set of advancement rules that is seperate from the mortal advancement rules.
Two characters in the same campaign could be working through different advancements without conflict (One epic, One immortal). Its also reminiscent of the heroic epics of mythology. There are a number of quests or epic labours that the hero goes through to gain the attention of the gods an untimately raises to a new godlike status.
It would work wonderfully with Mystara where the Immortals concept is entrenched over Deities.
The author checks a Q&A thread on the Mongoose Forums at:
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/p...2&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
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HellHound
ENnies winner and NOT Scrappy Doo
Actually, the EQRPG (Everquest) only goes to level 30, which is 10 epic levels effectively - at those levels the classes start getting cool 'epic' special abilities every few levels.
But these are for classes without actual counterparts in D&D... all the classes are rebuilt pretty extensively in EQ.
Personally, we've switched over to the Epic class advancements from the S&SS Advanced Player's Guide, with the Epic feats from the ELH.
But these are for classes without actual counterparts in D&D... all the classes are rebuilt pretty extensively in EQ.
Personally, we've switched over to the Epic class advancements from the S&SS Advanced Player's Guide, with the Epic feats from the ELH.
Quickleaf said:
This is close to a concept I've been working on in which players each create a core essence and, each adventure, layer a character onto that core. The core progresses in level/power as do the vessels. The fun thing is that every adventure the player gets the chance to create a new character while still retaining some key abilities and gained XP.
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