Alternatives to bows

[Inconsequenti-AL]

Apologies if this has been done before, but:

I'm interested in some ranged weapon choices, other than the bow...

Crossbows look OK, but the slow attack speed seems to make them pretty impractical, getting worse the more attacks you have. Repeating X-bow needs an exotic feat, and still, imo, just isn't as 'good' as a bow.

Thrown weapons initially look OK, but at higher levels, there is the problem of needing lots of different magic weapons. 'Returning' enchantments would help, but as I see it, they still only let you throw a weapon once per round.

Ideally I'd like to avoid a complete homebrew fix... Am I missing any rules? Are there any decent products that address this? Should I simply use the stats of a bow and describe it in a different way?

D20 modern + semi automatic firearms is not a good answer

 

[Flyspeck23]

Try d20 modern: semi automatic firearms

Seriously, there'd be one missile weapon in the core rulebook you didn't mention: slings. Granted, that's the worst ranged weapon this side of darts, but in the hand of a halfling it's at least pretty accurate. Additionally, your strength bonus does apply to slings. But the sling's a slow weapon too.

Maybe you should reconsider thrown weapons (the spear, for example). Together with quick draw that ain't such a bad choice.

Or go the whole way and use siege weapons

I'd be interested in your "bow described a different way".

 

[Darklone]

Have a look at Destans storyhour... the bards shoots weird crossbow bolts

Throwing weapons: Use something like shuriken. Or invent a skill called juggling for several returning weapons

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

Try d20 modern: semi automatic firearms

Seriously, there'd be one missile weapon in the core rulebook you didn't mention: slings. Granted, that's the worst ranged weapon this side of darts, but in the hand of a halfling it's at least pretty accurate. Additionally, your strength bonus does apply to slings. But the sling's a slow weapon too.

Hadn't looked at that. Although, I had it the wrong way around - thought they were quick, but no strength bonus... It does have the xbow problem - wouldn't be a very good choice for a fighter.

Maybe you should reconsider thrown weapons (the spear, for example). Together with quick draw that ain't such a bad choice.

I like it in principle, but it does become a problem at higher levels - you'd need a large number of magic throwing weapons... would be a real problem if you wanted to use them as a 'main' weapon.

Or go the whole way and use siege weapons

Time to stat up a giant with a pistol grip catapult

I'd be interested in your "bow described a different way".

Nothing clever... just buy a bow of some sort, and pretend/describe it as a crossbow/bag of throwing spears/etc. I don't really like it as a solution, but it doesn't require any new rules, just a bit of imagination.

 

[thullgrim]

throwing weapon would work with Quickdraw. If higher levels are a problem look at anew weapon enchantment. Call it multiple returning or some such,charge +2 or +3 and allow the same weapon be used in itreative strikes in the same round.

Thullgrim

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

Basically, if you want a ranged weapon different from bows but as effective, you'll need a feat. EWP for Repeating crossbow, Fast Reload for normal crossbows, Quickdraw for thrown weapons, EWP for shuriken, etc.

AR

 

[Darklone]

Basically, if you want a ranged weapon different from bows but as effective, you'll need a feat. EWP for Repeating crossbow, Fast Reload for normal crossbows, Quickdraw for thrown weapons, EWP for shuriken, etc.

AR

I thought darts count as ammunition? Hmm... not in the SRD...

 

[The Souljourner]

Basically, if you want a ranged weapon different from bows but as effective, you'll need a feat. EWP for Repeating crossbow, Fast Reload for normal crossbows, Quickdraw for thrown weapons, EWP for shuriken, etc.

AR

And this is exactly why everyone uses bows.

One option is to allow mighty crossbows. They take a certain strength to reload, and that strength is then imparted on the bolts. Means your strong fighter can reload the weak wizard's crossbow, but hey, that's only good for one shot.

I'd also change returning to return immediately after each throw, otherwise it's a useless enchantment.

I'm sorry, but you really have to house rule stuff like this in order to balance out the ranged weapons. There's just no beating a mighty composite longbow for damage.

-The Souljourner

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

And this is exactly why everyone uses bows.

One option is to allow mighty crossbows. They take a certain strength to reload, and that strength is then imparted on the bolts. Means your strong fighter can reload the weak wizard's crossbow, but hey, that's only good for one shot.

I'd also change returning to return immediately after each throw, otherwise it's a useless enchantment.

I'm sorry, but you really have to house rule stuff like this in order to balance out the ranged weapons. There's just no beating a mighty composite longbow for damage.

-The Souljourner

That's exactly what I felt. Nothing performs as well as a mighty composite longbow... It's just that I'm a little bored of seeing every range specialist using the same weapon. I was hoping there was something I'd missed in the main books...

In which case, what house/3rd party rules would people use or suggest to make other weapons as good as the mighty bow.

So far:

Slings, crossbows - need a feat to fire rapidly, no strength damage bonus or penalty. So good for str <10 ranged guys, unless theres some sort of mighty version.

Throwing weapons - need a feat to fire rapidly, need lots of magical versions/specific enchantments to use effectively. (I liked the change on returning to make it multi returning, but see below).

Ideally, I'd like to make them not take any more feats than using the longbow, unless they give you some other bonus for the feat... Likewise, no special enchantments, unless you get something for them... is it possible? Any ideas?

 

[Jeremy]

Especially now that there is effectively no cap on the strength bonus that can be applied save for your strength and your budget.