An Old Classic - Haste, And How To Handle It

[Someone]

I see; however the thread was slowly going into the "nerf the spell" house rules. And mind you, I agre Haste is a great spell for the party´s fighter. Not knowing your playing style or the actual combats you like to play or what you´ve already tried, I´d say that you should work to minimize the number of full attacks: use foes with Spring Attack or ranged attacks; don´t charge them, but Ready an action to strike when they charge or move; use battlefield control (reach weapons, tanglefoot bags...); caltrops or concealed traps; disarm, trip and sunder; ready an action to shoot the sorcerer as s/he starts to cast, or use counterspells; mounted or flying enemies...

 

[wedgeski]

I see; however the thread was slowly going into the "nerf the spell" house rules. And mind you, I agre Haste is a great spell for the party´s fighter. Not knowing your playing style or the actual combats you like to play or what you´ve already tried, I´d say that you should work to minimize the number of full attacks: use foes with Spring Attack or ranged attacks; don´t charge them, but Ready an action to strike when they charge or move; use battlefield control (reach weapons, tanglefoot bags...); caltrops or concealed traps; disarm, trip and sunder; ready an action to shoot the sorcerer as s/he starts to cast, or use counterspells; mounted or flying enemies...

Okay, thank-you. This is exactly the sort of brainstorming I'm looking for! I'm coming to realise, from this thread and others, that it's possible I'm woefully underusing Readied actions.

 

[shilsen]

Quite possibly. Readied actions are one of the best tactical options, if done right.

Also, it won't come up in every encounter, but remember that Slow automatically negates Haste with no save.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Tough melee opponents with reach are the big equalizer to haste. If the fighter and/or rogue want to get their full attacks in, that's great. A tough melee opponent would quite frankly like nothing better, so I don't see the problem in that. Add in reach-capable opponents and that's an extra attack for the bad guy(s). Improved Trip and similar tactics can nullify fast movement.

I'm sure the rogue Tumbles a lot, so you have to deal with that. Being RAW, you certainly won't have any counter-tumble mechanic. If the fighter/rogue has Spring Attack, then I think the best tactic is a readied improved trip.

 

[Gregor]

In addition to Infiniti's suggestion, dont forget to use the environment in which the PCs fight to hamper their newly acquired speed. Sure they get to move +30 feet extra a round and take control of the battlefield rapidly, but not when they are fighting on a battlefield full of obstacles. For example, change the locales up a bit and have your PCs fight:

- In a woodland with extremely thick undergrowth and big heaps of bushes and moss-covered boulders.

- In a dungeon / crypt / cistern that forces the PCs to battle in knee-deep water.

- Floors on an angle (i.e. sinking building) with rubble and stones on the floor.

- etc.

Your players will have to spend more movement to get where they need to go in difficult terrain and large obstacles can force them to spend even more movement to get around them.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Arnwyn]

My problem is, I need to challenge them, and at the moment, I'm not. I could just up the EL of every fight, and may indeed be forced to do so, but I would rather not, as it smacks of punishing their good play.

Well, not really - as they'd be getting more XP. In fact, they'd be rewarded for their good play, while being challenged as well!

Wow, if I played in Frank's or JRRN's games I think I would simply take Fireball and an energy substitution feat and toast them all with 6HD (since sorceror casting) fire/acidballs instead. Or are they houseruled as well?

I don't think they see that feat in their PHBs.

 

[Len]

Hey, don't get me wrong. My players work very cohesively and have developed proven, successful tactics in combat. I totally respect that. My problem is, I need to challenge them, and at the moment, I'm not. I could just up the EL of every fight, and may indeed be forced to do so, but I would rather not, as it smacks of punishing their good play. I'd rather fix my own failings.

If your players are beating the encounters too easily, then you should make the encounters more difficult. Upping the EL is in no way cheating, especially since your players are tactical experts. Whether you make an encounter harder by smart tactics, or by environment and surprise, or by adding class levels to the ogres, your players will thank you for a good tough fight. (Until they all die.)

 

[Infiniti2000]

I don't think they see that feat in their PHBs.

But, they do see it (energy sub.) in their SRDs. And, a better version than in their Complete Arcanes.

 

[Bad Paper]

she has also taken fly, so she benefits greatly from the increased movement speed

I don't think haste increases your magical fly speed. I could be wrong about that.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I don't think haste increases your magical fly speed. I could be wrong about that.

You'd be wrong about that.

Haste: "All of the hasted creature’s modes of movement (including land movement, burrow, climb, fly, and swim) increase by 30 feet, to a maximum of twice the subject’s normal speed using that form of movement."

Fly: "The subject can fly at a speed of 60 feet..."

Fly grants a speed and thus a mode of movement. Haste therefore affects it.