Anyone importing 4E’s’Used gear sells for 1/5th if at all’ to other RPG systems?

[Fifth Element]

You need to place an image on the internet if you intend for someone else to see it. You can use various places like photobucket, imageshack, etc; or even attach it to your thread via the provided tools here ay ENWorld.

Your harddrive is not a valid resource to hotlink an image to.

Thanks for the tip, but I was trying to copy & paste something and forgot to hit copy before paste, so it pasted the last thing I copied. Seems ENWorld put the IMG tags in for me automatically.

If your characters have more interesting things to do than you do, you may need some professional help.

I disagree. Saving the world is far more interesting than my mundane life.

 

[Loonook]

That's also an overstatement of 4E's assumption. Sure, the books could use a few more "generally"s and "often"s in their advice. But again, read things in context.

In my games (3E and earlier editions), sometimes we do like to haggle with the merchant and spend some time on it. Other times, there are other things we want to get to and skip over the details. Nothing wrong with either approach. 4E's advice should probably have been written more clearly to escape the overly literal reading that seems to haunt it at times.

It isn't an overstatement if they eliminate most of the passive skills . . . have extremely specific parcelling rules, etc. And yes, haggling is great . . . but claiming that 4e's wording should have been written more clearly to avoid literal interpretation... This is nonsense. Of course, playstyle and other factors should be taken into account (as I covered in the post), however, saying that by clearing up the language they would leave things up to interpretation...

The language is literal. It's there, it is what it says. Claiming the 'magical walmart' idea from 3.X which is not clearly stated, then claiming things which are clearly stated and provide for this being the 'law of the land' in the implied setting . . . you can't have both ways. 4e'rs get to reap the whirlwind just as quickly as older editions get to on their past crimes against roleplaying. You cannot complain about one edition's flaws (which are admittedly present), create hyperbole on concepts, then not allow the same complaints and criticisms from this source.

Also, Treebore: yeah, people will want to sell magic items... but when that first group of adventurers decides to bump over a magic shop (unless whoever is running these magic shops are epic-level merchants of death) you're probably going to find a steep decline in the 'wandmaker and +3 mace on every corner' crowd.

Slainte,

-Loonook.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Dude, seriously, you're losing whatever credibility you might have with this argument. That is clearly not what is intended by the passage in the DMG. The context (an important thing when quoting a single sentence out of the book) is a discussion of traveling merchants and how they function in a PoL economy.

A few paragraphs later it discusses how the magic item economy works if you, as DM, decide that players cannot sell magic items. It's all just advice to the DM. Read the whole thing, see the context, and you won't fall into the trap of making ridiculous, unsopportable claims.

But, just for the record, plane hopping merchants that monitor activity through fiber optic cables in the astral sea are awesome!

My repeated hyperbole aside, it is advised to make it a given in 4e that there will always be that travelling merchant there to buy the weapon. Heck, we had massive threads on that very thing when 4e still had it's new car smell.

Plus I think that's the only thing I've even said in this thread, so I dunno argument I'd be losing credibility with

 

[Treebore]

This is where I don't agree. Your retail knowledge wouldn't necessarily translate to all modern real-world environments (foreign cultures, war-torn areas, countries without free trade). Even if it did, there are factors to the environment of a D&D world that you can not possibly have experience with.

True, but I have seen how wars "over there" affected prices over here, etc... so I can extrapolate pretty reasonable assumptions on what I don't know from what I do know. Will they be accurate? No, I only hope they are "close enough". As long as it doesn't bother me due to what I know and understand, I am happy with it.

Plus there are plenty of books written about the ancient economies. The most recent of which I read was about the founding and settling of the South American Continent up to and including Mexico. It was very enlightening. Especially on the economics. The how and why people came to settle there, how they made money, set up their trade agreements, created things with which to trade and make money. It was far from being all about gold and silver. In particular I found how the King of Spain granted charters to establish towns and business'. In part I was shocked at how high some taxes were and how low others were.

I was very pleased that actual copies of several of these charters were included in the book.

So yes, a large part of what I do is indeed "guessing", but since I am aware of what I know and understand, I am much more comfortable with my house rules than I am with what I have found in the RPG's I have played. Even though I have been largely happy with the large scale trading charts/tables in the Traveller RPG.

As far as have been able to determine I am a much better expert than the people who wrote those rules. So naturally I would trust my expertise over some writer of whose expertise I have no idea about, other than I totally disagree with how the presented the economics. So naturally I can only assume they have no experience, or have only read books on economics, but don't know how that all applies in the real market. I not only have the book knowledge, but 10 years of experience seeing how that knowledge actually works and applies.

So I go with it.

 

[Oni]

Also, Treebore: yeah, people will want to sell magic items... but when that first group of adventurers decides to bump over a magic shop (unless whoever is running these magic shops are epic-level merchants of death) you're probably going to find a steep decline in the 'wandmaker and +3 mace on every corner' crowd.

Businesses get robbed and looted all the time and have throughout history, people still plug away at endevours which make them highly attractive targets specifically because there is so much to be gained from the risk. And not only that other businesses grow up around the risk itself.

 

[Loonook]

Businesses get robbed and looted all the time and have throughout history, people still plug away at endevours which make them highly attractive targets specifically because there is so much to be gained from the risk. And not only that other businesses grow up around the risk itself.

Yeah, but the government rarely has to deal with the local liquor store holding a couple of nuclear weapons or flamethrowers in back... or the local mom and pop for having a couple of shotguns which can destroy tanks.

It would work except for the fact that magic item shops are so much more dangerous than even the most dangerous 'easy access' shops (places which supply fertilizers and compounds which can be turned into explosives, gun stores) as to be an absurd argument.

Slainte,

-Loonook.

 

[delericho]

I like the haggling as a player, and am usually the one that will start it with the DM as the NPC. I like roleplaying. I don't call character interaction that isn't combat "making us jump through all those hoops".

Non-combat interactions is one thing. The DM wasting the majority of the group's limited gaming time for the week on a non-quest, and doing it not because it will advance his story, or build his world, or show characterisation, but rather just because he thinks it will be funny (or worse, through some misguided notion that these things should be difficult and time consuming just because), that's another thing entirely.

When this happens once, it's annoying. When multiple DMs do it on multiple occasions, and think that this is the right way to go about things, it becomes a problem.

My gaming time is limited, and therefore valuable. If the DM has a reason to fill it up with a quest to identify and then sell a particular magic item, then fine. If not, then he's a bad DM.

 

[justanobody]

Non-combat interactions is one thing. The DM wasting the majority of the group's limited gaming time for the week on a non-quest, and doing it not because it will advance his story, or build his world, or show characterisation, but rather just because he thinks it will be funny (or worse, through some misguided notion that these things should be difficult and time consuming just because), that's another thing entirely.

When this happens once, it's annoying. When multiple DMs do it on multiple occasions, and think that this is the right way to go about things, it becomes a problem.

My gaming time is limited, and therefore valuable. If the DM has a reason to fill it up with a quest to identify and then sell a particular magic item, then fine. If not, then he's a bad DM.

Maybe you are just playing with the wrong groups, or expecting every group to know what you want out of the game or want the same things you do from it.

If you are so limited in time to play, then you only have yourself to blame for not stating so up front and make sure you understood the game at hand and the way it was going to be run.

It is the players job to identify their own personal needs, not the DM or rest of the groups job to try to guess any that a single play may have.

You signed up for the DMs story when you entered it with your character. No one says you have to stick around, but don't blame a or all DMs because you failed to communicate your interests.

If you don't have time to haggle over prices for things, then make sure the rest of the groups knows in advance to be able to work you properly into the game if there is room for you in it.

 

[Treebore]

Yeah, but the government rarely has to deal with the local liquor store holding a couple of nuclear weapons or flamethrowers in back... or the local mom and pop for having a couple of shotguns which can destroy tanks.

It would work except for the fact that magic item shops are so much more dangerous than even the most dangerous 'easy access' shops (places which supply fertilizers and compounds which can be turned into explosives, gun stores) as to be an absurd argument.

Slainte,

-Loonook.

That actually depends. The more powerful the items a shop has available is a very good indicator that the owner, or owners, are pretty powerful mages/priests/whatever spell casters you have in your campaign.


For some strange reason the store, or temple, always seems to have a guardian or guardians powerful enough to make PC's cry for their mommies.

Plus I never allow evil PC's, and only allow straight neutral Druids. So I rarely even have PC's that would even think to rob stores or temples. When I have they ended up dead or in jail.

Thankfully players tend to get the message pretty quick.

Edit: Plus I never have to have "EPIC level" guards or guardians. Just powerful enough to put the smack down on them. When they reach Epic levels such stores/temple aren't worth their time or effort anymore. I never have such powerful items available that way. Those are owned by dragons, liches, etc...

 

[pawsplay]

Yeah, but the government rarely has to deal with the local liquor store holding a couple of nuclear weapons or flamethrowers in back... or the local mom and pop for having a couple of shotguns which can destroy tanks.

A nuke is basically an artifact. The flamethrower thing is apt, simply because they are regulated, but if you have the right to carry them, you can buy them. And wandering mercenaries can and do purchase rocket propelled grenade launchers.