Anyone importing 4E’s’Used gear sells for 1/5th if at all’ to other RPG systems?

Are you importing 4E’s ’Used gear sells for 1/5th if at all’ to other RPG systems?


A nuke is basically an artifact. The flamethrower thing is apt, simply because they are regulated, but if you have the right to carry them, you can buy them. And wandering mercenaries can and do purchase rocket propelled grenade launchers.

. . . Which are Usually supplied by governments, shady markets formed by military contractors, or through the black market of people bumping off depots or trading in the materials.

Yes, I think that such things are despicable... but that's how it works. Most mercs don't just walk in and pick up a SAW or an nice M60 off the block; a lot of the items are left behind from previous wars, passed down in condition, or produced by depots who have licensed the rights in countries with less stringent laws on these sorts of things. I really dislike FR, but the Thayan magocracy's whole 'sow dissent through supplying rebel groups and terrorists in stable countries with powerful magic' is pretty close to what a lot of arms brokers do in today's society... but this veers towards politics a little heavily.

However, real-life analogue which would prove apt and awesome as an NPC: there is a man (whom I have been trying to find the name of); I believe he is Dutch or possibly had dealings with a lot of guys out of the region, Eastern Europe, etc. He was a treetop-flying supplier for rebel groups and organizations around the world... I think there's one photo of him floating around the world. Brutally efficient, well-known to Interpol, the UN, and other nations... and he can get anything. There was a great interview with him years ago (probably 10, maybe 15?) where he was discussing his tactics...

And they were so in line with a Bond Villain that they shocked me. Awesome concept, wish I knew his actual name so I could provide a source.

Slainte,

-Loonook.

Edit: Viktor Bout is an example of a possible (though nothing has been proven) individual who fits the mold... will continue to try to find the source. He has been arrested since last I read the article... so yeah, the materials surrounding him are a good resource.
 
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In Palladium, magic shops are rare but do exist, and are run by Alchemists, a sort of multiclassed spellcaster with specialized knowledge. Because of the vast amount of knowledge they need, and the "lost" knowledge they possess such as creating certain items, they must be of very advanced age, often nonhumans such as elves or shapechanged dragons in reality. In a world where it is feasible, if difficult, for powerful casters to double or triple their lifespans, human magic dealers might be more common.

In the average D&D world, magic item creation is a rare art but not a lost one and the knowledge needed to supply basic magical materials is not so esoteric. Hence it makes sense for mage guilds, arms dealers, powerful nobles, and the like to deal in magic items.
 


DaveMage said:
Dude - you need to go start another fun beer thread (or one like it). This one just isn't fun (although somehow it has managed to be amusing and depressing at the same time). :confused:

I know, I know.

But at least it encouraged me drink a couple beers while wading through all the gibber-jabber.

Hell, Dave, if I were smart my EN World name wouldn't be what it is.

WP
 

That actually depends. The more powerful the items a shop has available is a very good indicator that the owner, or owners, are pretty powerful mages/priests/whatever spell casters you have in your campaign.


For some strange reason the store, or temple, always seems to have a guardian or guardians powerful enough to make PC's cry for their mommies.

Plus I never allow evil PC's, and only allow straight neutral Druids. So I rarely even have PC's that would even think to rob stores or temples. When I have they ended up dead or in jail.

Thankfully players tend to get the message pretty quick.

Edit: Plus I never have to have "EPIC level" guards or guardians. Just powerful enough to put the smack down on them. When they reach Epic levels such stores/temple aren't worth their time or effort anymore. I never have such powerful items available that way. Those are owned by dragons, liches, etc...

So your reasoning is that PCs would never bump off a store because the proprietors are going to be much more powerful than they are and have plenty of protective guardians to cover the lot.

What exactly is the reasoning behind this? What is the cost-benefit to installing these items, keeping them in check, watchmen, etc. . . . and why would a sane government allow a honeypot spot which is protected from even the most hearty of adventurers to exist within its borders?

A CR (Level + 6) creature contained in every shop. Wards, Symbols, additional guards and traps . . . plenty of cover, probably access to all sorts of fun materials to screw around with and a clientele of unsavory pillaging murderers... and the government doesn't get a cut?

Really? What level of realism is this?

Slainte,

-Loonook.
 

I imagine a shop has basic defenses. To make it secure, I would set aside my "fair GM" hat and make the shop as not worth it as possible. Items with false magical auras, reasonable but unfair traps, etc. And the shop's main protection is that its owner lives elsewhere and employes truly nasty bounty hunters when needed.

As to how strong the guardians are... figure out how much the stuff is worth, then figure out an encounter for which that is double the normal treasure award. :)
 

I imagine a shop has basic defenses. To make it secure, I would set aside my "fair GM" hat and make the shop as not worth it as possible. Items with false magical auras, reasonable but unfair traps, etc. And the shop's main protection is that its owner lives elsewhere and employes truly nasty bounty hunters when needed.

As to how strong the guardians are... figure out how much the stuff is worth, then figure out an encounter for which that is double the normal treasure award. :)

If that is the case, then those 'bounty hunters' should be spending more time granting prayers... yeah... the costs involved in even a mid-level magic shop's item selection (unless you're just going to go about and say 'hey, that just happens to be here!') would be up into Epic CRs in a metropolis... why are these people accepting low pay for their epic services again?

Slainte,

-Loonook.
 

So your reasoning is that PCs would never bump off a store because the proprietors are going to be much more powerful than they are and have plenty of protective guardians to cover the lot.

What exactly is the reasoning behind this? What is the cost-benefit to installing these items, keeping them in check, watchmen, etc. . . . and why would a sane government allow a honeypot spot which is protected from even the most hearty of adventurers to exist within its borders?

A CR (Level + 6) creature contained in every shop. Wards, Symbols, additional guards and traps . . . plenty of cover, probably access to all sorts of fun materials to screw around with and a clientele of unsavory pillaging murderers... and the government doesn't get a cut?

Really? What level of realism is this?

Slainte,

-Loonook.

No. Not every shop. My shops tend to only supply stuff up to a certain level. If you want low level stuff go to "Edgar Blizzards Shop of Wizardly Implements". This shop you can get the basics, components, inks, paper/books, etc... Probably some potions and scrolls, maybe a wand or two with MAgic Missile on it etc... Your likely a first thru 5th level group when your interested in this shop. So what is the proprietor? 8th? 9th level? Plus he probably has some pretty competent hireling or adventuring buddies to call in if need be.

As for security? Pretty easy. Have one door/entry. The walls are 3 layers, wood stone and lead, include the ceiling in this. Now the key is to not have the vault as part of the building. When the item goes to be recovered the wizard takes his gold with him into the "vault" door. Which actually enters into a small room where a permanent Dimension Door is located. This goes to the actual vault, which is actually located up to 450 feet away from where your shop is. Using the Dimension Door can be word activated, or word and item activated.

So your shop only has the "cheap stuff" that is pretty easy to replace, your "vault" has everything of value (IE worth keeping from being stolen) in it. So unless these low levels find out where your vault is actually located, or convince the mage to tell them the password and give the pass key item, they will never steal anything of great worth.

You could have the wizard ward the doors (Entry door, and vault door) for good measure, and even have guardian creatures/traps (magical and mundane) in the vault itself , in case the Wizard is ever used and coerced to break in. However this basic design is a good basic to stop most want to be thieves/robbers of up to even higher levels.

Its also a good idea to have the wizard wear an item that has a permanent protection from evil, or similar, on it so that even if he is charmed/dominated he cannot be influenced to give over his keys to the vault, or divulge its true location.

All kinds of things you can do to thwart thieving PC's. Pretty easy stuff too.

Edit: In case its not obvious as the party gets powerful enough to steal such things from Edgars shop they have hopefully become powerful enough to not find what Edgar still has worth stealing. If they do then they do. Then his vault can be as full or empty as I want it to be if/when they do.

Now since they are now "too good for" the stuff Edgar has to sell they then find "Gestafi's Magnificent Emporium!". This guy supplies moderately powerful stuff. I never give real powerful stuff away for sale, those have to be commissioned and role played. Anyways, Gestafi is as powerful as I want him to be, usually I start him out at 14th level and then scale him as the party levels.

If you read what a character of his level can do, and think of how he can intelligently design his store to be as theft proof as possible, I think further design changes and defenses will occur to you without making this into a "How to break into a magic shop" for the players who read these threads.
 
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No. Not every shop. My shops tend to only supply stuff up to a certain level. If you want low level stuff go to "Edgar Blizzards Shop of Wizardly Implements". This shop you can get the basics, components, inks, paper/books, etc... Probably some potions and scrolls, maybe a wand or two with MAgic Missile on it etc... Your likely a first thru 5th level group when your interested in this shop. So what is the proprietor? 8th? 9th level? Plus he probably has some pretty competent hireling or adventuring buddies to call in if need be.

As for security? Pretty easy. Have one door/entry. The walls are 3 layers, wood stone and lead, include the ceiling in this. Now the key is to not have the vault as part of the building. When the item goes to be recovered the wizard takes his gold with him into the "vault" door. Which actually enters into a small room where a permanent Dimension Door is located. This goes to the actual vault, which is actually located up to 450 feet away from where your shop is. Using the Dimension Door can be word activated, or word and item activated.

So your shop only has the "cheap stuff" that is pretty easy to replace, your "vault" has everything of value (IE worth keeping from being stolen) in it. So unless these low levels find out where your vault is actually located, or convince the mage to tell them the password and give the pass key item, they will never steal anything of great worth.

You could have the wizard ward the doors (Entry door, and vault door) for good measure, and even have guardian creatures/traps (magical and mundane) in the vault itself , in case the Wizard is ever used and coerced to break in. However this basic design is a good basic to stop most want to be thieves/robbers of up to even higher levels.

Its also a good idea to have the wizard wear an item that has a permanent protection from evil, or similar, on it so that even if he is charmed/dominated he cannot be influenced to give over his keys to the vault, or divulge its true location.

All kinds of things you can do to thwart thieving PC's. Pretty easy stuff too.

Edit: In case its not obvious as the party gets powerful enough to steal such things from Edgars shop they have hopefully become powerful enough to not find what Edgar still has worth stealing. If they do then they do. Then his vault can be as full or empty as I want it to be if/when they do.

Now since they are now "too good for" the stuff Edgar has to sell they then find "Gestafi's Magnificent Emporium!". This guy supplies moderately powerful stuff. I never give real powerful stuff away for sale, those have to be commissioned and role played. Anyways, Gestafi is as powerful as I want him to be, usually I start him out at 14th level and then scale him as the party levels.

If you read what a character of his level can do, and think of how he can intelligently design his store to be as theft proof as possible, I think further design changes and defenses will occur to you without making this into a "How to break into a magic shop" for the players who read these threads.

Permanent Dimension Door?

Oky doky... so we're just not playing by the rules. There's going to be different levels of things you can do, but lead prevents only so much, and variance in materials is great... except that the building itself has to be produced by someone.

You're creating (anywhere) a stockpile of magic which rivals dragon's hoards, and not putting a dragon there to protect it. Players and NPCs will think of ways to break in to such a place.

Slainte,

-Loonook.
 

Permanent Dimension Door?

Oky doky... so we're just not playing by the rules. There's going to be different levels of things you can do, but lead prevents only so much, and variance in materials is great... except that the building itself has to be produced by someone.

You're creating (anywhere) a stockpile of magic which rivals dragon's hoards, and not putting a dragon there to protect it. Players and NPCs will think of ways to break in to such a place.

Slainte,

-Loonook.

How is that against the rules? Dimension Door can be permanent by the rules. A wizard is incapable of getting a building built?

Plus, since when does a 9th level wizard have a dragon sized hoard? He has however much, or little, the DM wants him to have. The DM deciding such things isn't against the rules.

I can decide he built such a building, I can decide he permanently did a dimension door, either because he had a scroll of Permanency, asked his old master, or asked another ally more powerful than himself to do it.

I can decide he has 50,000 gold worth of magic items today, and only has 1,500 gold tomorrow.

You do realize your only limited by your imagination, don't you?
 

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