The standard rates for all sold magic items within the RPGA means that items given out and sold are always keeping the same "money" in the game. No matter where your character enters a venue in the RPGA that level 10 magic item will always net the same 20% value for a 4th edition game.
Anyone importing 4E’s’Used gear sells for 1/5th if at all’ to other RPG systems?
- Thread starter frankthedm
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Lanefan
Victoria Rules
Couldn't disagree more, but that's for another thread sometime...
I *am* arguing against it, both in and out of 4e. It's an easy-way-out rule if nobody cares very much, but as soon as it's examined the least bit closely it falls apart, and should not have been made the default. (the 50% rule in 3e was just as bad for much the same reasons, only the higher %-age made it a bit more justifyable)
Lanefan
Lanefan
Victoria Rules
And how did said NPC get powerful enough to cast this ritual if he didn't adventure, and where can my PC get in on some of that action? Bang goes your world's internal consistency...
Who says they're antagonists? They certainly could be at some point, but it's not cast in stone. Hell, somewhere down the line they might even be friends of ours.
Of course. But then again, they might. Random chance; roll the dice.
LotR, while a wonderful setting for the books for which it was intended, is not at all an ideal setting for an RPG - unless, of course, you intend to RP the main characters in the books, in which case you're absolutely hidebound by canon.
Look rather at settings designed for D+D. FR has adventurers chasing all over the place. Greyhawk ditto, only slightly further in the background. Ditto the Known World (later called Mystara). Dragonlance is an oddball, in that while designed for D+D it also suffers from the canon-uber-alles problem found in trying to use Middle Earth.
One setting in which it *is* practical to assume the only adventurers in existence are the PCs is Ravenloft; assume all the others got turned into the vampires you now have to kill...
Taking this PCs-are-special to its logical end conclusion raises a question: if I'm running a character in a game where we in the party are the only known adventurers, and my character permanently dies, where does my replacement come from? And, how did it earn the levels it has when it comes into the party? As soon as you answer "by adventuring", you've just shown there are other adventurers out there...
Best to just tell the players up front, right when you drop the puck on a campaign, that they are not the only fish in the sea; and that some of the other fish are mighty big.
Lanefan
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
What action? The action of sitting around and wait for someone to require a Raise Dead ritual? Sure, they can do that. But then they wouldn't run around adventuring. Some things can't be done by travelling the countryside and rescuing damsels in distress, exploring dungeons and killing people and take their stuff.
"Hey, cool, this NPC has a hot wife and a family with 3 kids! How can I have that, too?" "Simple. Stop adventuring, find a job, find a woman you love, and make some babies!" "Sounds good. But wait, stop adventuring? I like adventuring!" "You can't have both!" "Bah. That's unfair!" "Yes. So what?"
And that's only something you might be able to do with enough "willpower" to see it through.
Then there are things for that some people have a talent and can just do. You can achieve the same only through rigorous training. (Like, gaining level 6 or 8 to cast Raise Dead).
And some things you will never get, no matter how hard you train. I will never be as good as a driver as Micheal Schumacher. I will never beat Kasparov or Deep Blue in a chess duel. I won't be able to dance on the ice as Kati Witt did. Some of this is because the other has a talent. Some of this is because I am particularly.... ungifted. Some of this is just because they started training at the right time, and I am simply too late.
So does wandering around killing tribes of kobolds make you a better servant of your god/dess? Maybe clerics should spend their time studying holy texts, praying. meditating, helping spread the faith and supporting the faithful. The ones who go off adventuring may be serving their deity one way, but the implication that it's the only legitimate way seems slightly odd.
I'm put in mind of an OotS comic where Haley comes back from an adventure where she did nothing but kill kobolds, and Bang! She's better at picking locks.
Vyvyan Basterd
Adventurer
Of course. But then again, they might. Random chance; roll the dice.
Why wait for the random chance that another "adventurer" will come around with the armor you want? What if you carry that +2 flail around for months waiting to find someone who wants to trade for it? Instead I'll go sell it and any other items I don't want to a merchant for the 20% Residuum value and with the Residuum drained from the item the merchant can make whatever item I want within an hour. Items on demand that my character can make use of instead of carrying around useless items waiting for the chance of finding someone to trade.
The "Residuum Market" is what makes 4E's 20% rule work (granted they could have chosen any % as the Residuum value). And I like the model it creates. It explains why characters can almost always find a buyer, why they can almost always find the item they want, and how merchants are able to avoid all the other problems that arose around this debate in the past (defense, finding buyers, magic shops, etc).
So maybe you don't like the 20% rule. The percentage isn't really all that important, it is just a balancing tool. Changing it in 4E could throw off balance. But the real gem in 4E is the idea that seemed kinda hokey at first, Residuum. This thread has helped me pace through the magic item economy and helped me realize that Residuum is a really good idea. I could totally see porting this into 3E. You could keep the 50% value for Residuum. You would just have to houserule a way to extract it from a magic item.
Then we are done here until that other thread occurs since we agree 20% for magic items doesn't cut it.
Lanefan
Victoria Rules
True; I was pulling stuff off the top of my head and thinking of my own game, where I have uncommon weapons (e.g. flail) priced quite a bit lower...but still not as low as +1 scale.
That said, if I was trading a +2 something for a +1 something I'd want some cash back too; I didn't mention that earlier as it just adds another complication without helping make my point.
Lanefan
Lanefan
Victoria Rules
No, the action of being able to become powerful enough to cast Raise Dead without having to risk my neck in field adventuring on a regular basis.
In fact, it'd be pretty easy to do this; your example might not be the best, as there's loads of historical examples of fighting types who went on campaigns in the summers and stayed home in the winters. A better example might be can a PC also become a top-flight sage?
That said, I think I see what you're getting at...the idea that a stay-at-home cleric could, over the long term, gain enough experience (and thus, levels) to be able to cast Raise Dead; and I agree with this. There do need to be other ways of gaining experience...adventuring is merely the fast-track high-risk-high-reward way of doing it...but for some reason these are never outlined in the rules (though 3e sort of tried, with the various non-adventuring "classes"). Even something as simple as saying a stay-at-home temple cleric or lab wizard or guild thief normally gains approximately 1 level for each <fill in appropriate time length here> spent doing so would be enough.
Still doesn't fix the original problems, though: undervalued magic items and special-flower PCs.
Lanefan
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