D&D 4E Anyone playing 4e at the moment?

[dave2008]

Maybe, but people were complaining that they couldn't run the typical D&D stories with 4e. And I have an easier time running some sort of game "stories" with 4e than I do with 5e, saying this as someone who has run Nentir Vale in 4e and 5e.

Fine, but I wasn't one of those people.

 

[dave2008]

... I feel my character having the same highest attribute at level 5 and level 20 in 5e very much implies an element of the story just as in 4e my highest attribute will likely be 6 to maybe 10 higher.

It could, of course that doesn't need to be the case. In 5e you can have everything from no attribute increase (which is basically how my group plays) up to and including a 20 point increase (if you start from 10) or more. And that is just with stuff supplied in the core books. If you add in all the supplements there are even more "stories" you can tell without getting into homebrew (which is where the real stories are told if you ask me ).

 

[dave2008]

For @Garthanos and @Aldarc : I just want to clarify a bit my stand on edition "story." This actually stems from the 4e days when everyone was saying you can't do this or that in 4e. I repeatedly said that 4e reminded me of 1e and I played it basically like I did in 1e. I was told that was impossible, or I was doing it wrong, or I was lying. However, I hold by that statement. What I found was the system or edition was less important than the people playing the game. The old timers I played with (including myself) played 4e like we played 1e. Our own story and RPG inertia was more important than the edition fluff or implied story based on the game's mechanics. Those just didn't affect how we wanted to tell our stories.

 

[Garthanos]

Fine, but I wasn't one of those people.

I find it relatively easy to visualize my Strength matching Dragons as being a martial artists expert leverage for one character and Herculean awesome which built up over time for another character

It could, of course that doesn't need to be the case.

ummm looks like it to me. Did you remove the max attribute cap at 20?

In 5e you can have everything from no attribute increase (which is basically how my group plays) up to and including a 20 point increase

You mean after level 30 or by granting boons at lower level or by giving everyone custom magic items not everyone is a Strength character?

 

[Garthanos]

For @Garthanos and @Aldarc : I just want to clarify a bit my stand on edition "story." This actually stems from the 4e days when everyone was saying you can't do this or that in 4e. I repeatedly said that 4e reminded me of 1e and I played it basically like I did in 1e.

I found it easier to tell the stories I wanted to than in 1e. But I wanted class balance and broadly competent martial types as that too is part of the story.

 

[dave2008]

I found it easier to tell the stories I wanted to in 1e. But I wanted class balance and broadly competent martial types

That seems surprising from a 4e champion!

 

[Garthanos]

That seems surprising from a 4e champion!

I found it easier to tell them in 4e (*already the focus implied by your statement) than in 1e era... LOL I edited a touch anyway

 

[Garthanos]

I find it relatively easy to visualize my Strength matching Dragons as being a martial artists expert leverage for one character and Herculean awesome which built up over time for another character

And I value that flexibility too... it doesn't need to be locked down or enabled by DM largess

 

[dave2008]

I find it relatively easy to visualize my Strength matching Dragons as being a martial artists expert leverage for one character and Herculean awesome which built up over time for another character

I am not sure what this comment has to do with me saying 4e didn't limit the stories I could tell. Can you clarify?

ummm looks like it to me. Did you remove the cap at 20?

Regarding 5e:

1. There is no requirement to increase a stat at all (for example my group takes feats instead).
2. Barbarians can get a Str & Con score of 24.
3. Any character can get a supernatural gift to extend max. ability score to 22.

You mean after level 30 or by granting boons at lower level or by giving everyone custom magic items not everyone is a Strength character?

By RAW supernatural gifts handle expanding the ability score cap past 20 pre level 20. Boons, and their alternates, do indeed increase the CAP to 30. So I was indeed talking about 20th level play with regard to an ability score of 30.

However, if you want something more epic, easy enough to apply boons at lower levels or stretch supernatural gifts like Theros did (which allows a player driven expansion of the ability cap to 22).

 

[Garthanos]

I am not sure what this comment has to do with me saying 4e didn't limit the stories I could tell. Can you clarify?

it agrees with your comment that one can consider elements of 4e even the high attribute increases in 4e to be more than one story.

Regarding 5e:

1. There is no requirement to increase a stat at all (for example my group takes feats instead).

yes I know and stat increases can be boring (except when they arent).. why not make them automatic with feats something you also get .... oh right.

1. Barbarians can get a Str & Con score of 24.

hyper specific special case... my Battlemaster fighter just looks at that and shrugs.

1. Any character can get a supernatural gift to extend max. ability score to 22.

And entirely DM controlled instead of a reflexion of Epic Destinies and paragon paths or really any player choices at all? might as well just admit the story is about characters not actually evolving or progressing in this way. To me 5e characters feel small.

That battlemaster will get no maneuvers at high level he couldnt get at level 3 in 5e.... there are many ways characters feel small

Do you actually consider the Theros to be the default game story and how long did it take before that came out? Longer than 4e was even sold.