Arcanist playtest

[Neonchameleon]

And even then, the orbizard only has one schtick (at least this was the case last time I looked, which admittedly was a long time ago), usually only viable once a day.

Strictly false. You miss the Orbmaster's other power. The extend the effect line of an at will power. Which makes Cloud of Daggers, Freezing Cloud, and especially Storm Pillar huge winners for an orbmaster. And then there's the specific Orbmaster powers...

I see little to no reason to make a wizard over a mage.

I have a big one. Ritual caster. Mages don't get it.

 

[Kzach]

If you're not specializing in pushes and forcing attacks, then does bonuses to pushing and forced attacks actually matter? No. But that extra defense DOES.

You're focusing a lot on the enchanter. There are several other schools... not only that, but the mage gets the benefit of several school bonuses, not just one.

Int/Wis isn't exactly hard to come by.

Erm, I just said it is... how many races have an int/wis stat bonus? I can only think of two off the top of my head.

That's an unfair comparison. Comparing the mage to one build of wizard is deceiving. Both the mage and the arcanist have the same requirement for attributes. But an invoker and a staff wizard are equally as beholden to constitution.

Deceiving? Whom am I deceiving? Orbizard is really the only effective wizard build. You can have blasters, sure, but there are better blaster classes out there.

If you're going for (you suck, save ends) abilities, there's Sleep, Deep Slumber, Legion's Hold right there off the top of my head, which is three encounters reduced to nothing by the Orbizard builds.

Ok, well, like I said, it's been a long time since I've actually looked into it all so it seems they've gotten a bit more effectiveness. I don't actually see that as a good thing given that, even after the nerf, stunlocking still exists and is retarded.

If, and ONLY if, you specialize in a type of effect supported by your schools. If you're looking to generalize, the school bonuses only help one or two of your powers at best, and that's not going to help you as much as, say, Staff of Defense, which is always on. Or Tome of Readiness, which is versatile as hell.

Again, the mage gets the benefit of several school bonuses, not just one. And again, I suspect that all schools are eventually going to be represented on all spells, giving the mage player a much greater variety of choice with spells that are affected by their school bonuses.

And, again, the mage not only gets to swap out their encounter powers, but they eventually can put EVERY spell in their spellbooks. Forget every other class feature, that alone puts the mage way over the wizard in terms of versatility, and in this game versatility = power.

As well, mage schools have no feat support, whereas wizard implement mastery does.

We both know they will eventually have feat support. It's just a matter of time.

The comparison is not as simple as you make it out to be.

Nor is it as complex as you make it out to be.

I have a big one. Ritual caster. Mages don't get it.

I'll happily forgo a benefit that sees little to no use in any game I've ever run or played in, for even the weakest benefit of the mage.

 

[DracoSuave]

You're focusing a lot on the enchanter. There are several other schools... not only that, but the mage gets the benefit of several school bonuses, not just one.

One and a half school's worth of bonuses is a far cry from several.

Erm, I just said it is... how many races have an int/wis stat bonus? I can only think of two off the top of my head.

Orbizard thrived in a world without any int/wis races. It's not as important a point as you make it out to be.

Deceiving? Whom am I deceiving? Orbizard is really the only effective wizard build. You can have blasters, sure, but there are better blaster classes out there.

I disagree.

Again, the mage gets the benefit of several school bonuses, not just one. And again, I suspect that all schools are eventually going to be represented on all spells, giving the mage player a much greater variety of choice with spells that are affected by their school bonuses.

Again, 'several' and '1.5' are not even in the same ball park. A mage doesn't even get the full benefit of a second school... only one minor additional benefit.

And, again, the mage not only gets to swap out their encounter powers, but they eventually can put EVERY spell in their spellbooks. Forget every other class feature, that alone puts the mage way over the wizard in terms of versatility, and in this game versatility = power.

So long as all those encounter spells do the same basic thing, sure. Again, see above. 1.5. Not 'several.' And... Tome of Readiness can do the same thing, swapping in the MIDDLE of combat.

THAT"S versatile, son.

We both know they will eventually have feat support. It's just a matter of time.

Eventually. And when it does, I'll re-evaluate that point at that time. Until then... I'm going to base things on how they are now.

Nor is it as complex as you make it out to be.

No, of course it isn't -that- complex. All you need to do is look at things outside the number of features and look at how flexible and useful those features are.

I'll happily forgo a benefit that sees little to no use in any game I've ever run or played in, for even the weakest benefit of the mage.

I'm surprised, Staff of Defense is pretty good... it's a second Shield spell every encounter. Orb of Deception is pretty good... it's like an extra attack every encounter. Tome of Readiness is pretty good.

And mages as summoners? No.

The only one that doesn't really measure up is Wand of Accuracy. And that's more because wands suck than because WoA sucks.

 

[Gortle]

I don't mind, though; Flaming Sphere is still a ton of fun.

What other changes are of interest in the article?

Flaming Sphere is going to do very little damage now. It just makes opponents move. The ongoing attack is less effective than most at will powers. It is now a very situational power and complete crap.

Stinking Cloud has lost a stack of damage and the ability to block line of sight. It is now just an OK power instead of a good power. It has been nerf way harder than the updated Rain of Steel.

The BloodMage Bolstering Blood ability was always marginal as monsters have stacks more hit points than fragile wizards. Now it is single target and even more pointless. Only useful if you have a source of temporary hitpoints.

Destructive Salutation was an awesome power when it stunned, now it only dazes it is weak. The daze effect in my opinion is less than half as potent as stunning.

I always thought the Wizard had the best dailies, no more.

Thanks WotC my generalist BloodMage is now retired.

 

[Peraion Graufalke]

The main thing that jumped out to me is that Flaming Sphere now deals damage to enemies that END their turns adjacent to the sphere, rather than those that BEGIN their turn adjacent. So much for auto-killing minions!

I don't mind, though; Flaming Sphere is still a ton of fun.

Seeing that they nerfed several spells this way, I don't like this at all. The way I see it, this has been done to protect minions, but it reduces the wizard's damage output, which could lead to (more) combat grind. I'm going to ignore this change for my games.

Also, why didn't they just state that in general, walls and zones only deal damage once per round (or per turn, if you prefer) to a creature? That eliminates the ping-pong of death issue without having to nerf update multiple spells.

Scorching Burst got no improvement at all. Why not give it a minor control or debuff effect so it's not strictly worse than Freezing Burst?

Fire Burst didn't get half damage on a miss. There are other evocation spells that lack this, but at least they have got ongoing damage. Am I missing something here?

The Blood Mage got nerfed again? Oh dear. Destructive Salutation could have kept a stunned UENT plus the ongoing damage effect on a hit.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

Looks to me like it's more change just for the sake of change. I don't remember any of these spells being overpowered or stepping on anyone else's toes.

I think they change stuff just to make it seem like a change was needed to start with.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Looks to me like it's more change just for the sake of change. I don't remember any of these spells being overpowered or stepping on anyone else's toes.

I think they change stuff just to make it seem like a change was needed to start with.

I am quite unhappy with the changes actually and my group has gone back to paper only. It has been a good change. Nice to mnow what I see in the books is the rule.

Still, I would prefer a few powerups in some phb classes.

 

[MrBeens]

Seeing that they nerfed several spells this way, I don't like this at all. The way I see it, this has been done to protect minions, but it reduces the wizard's damage output, which could lead to (more) combat grind. I'm going to ignore this change for my games.


Scorching Burst got no improvement at all. Why not give it a minor control or debuff effect so it's not strictly worse than Freezing Burst?

Fire Burst didn't get half damage on a miss. There are other evocation spells that lack this, but at least they have got ongoing damage. Am I missing something here?

Selective quote

Cloud of daggers got changed to end of turn too. Makes this spell much worse now.

I think fireburst not getting changed is an error, as they use that spell as an example in the intro

 

[Zaran]

Also, why didn't they just state that in general, walls and zones only deal damage once per round (or per turn, if you prefer) to a creature? That eliminates the ping-pong of death issue without having to nerf update multiple spells.

Right, I was wondering why they didn't make this change with Blade Barrier when they nerfed the Cleric up. If this was on their mind for so long this should have come up before we got to the Wizard.

I thought the Class Compendium's purpose wasn't to Nerf the PHB classes. I thought it was to reprint the PHB classes in updated form so that people would not have to rely on DDI for updates. I was hoping that the Arcanist would get boosts to make them more comparable to the Mage because like many in this thread, I feel the Mage's advantages outweigh the fact that don't have free rituals.

 

[Zaran]

We both know they will eventually have feat support. It's just a matter of time.

Actually have you seen any Essentials based Class feats? I think Class Feats have been cast off for class features gained as the eClass levels. They just haven't shined a light on it.