Are you glad the Star Wars prequels were even made?

[TiQuinn]

DP.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Yoda leading a massive army supposedly for the Senate yet has been cloned from the DNA of an assassin who is in league with the head of the rebellion, and you don't see that as a plot hole big enough to pilot the Death Star through?

Nazi Engineer Wernher von Braun was the chief architect of the American Saturn V rocket. Was that a plot hole too?

 

[buzzard]

Yoda leading a massive army supposedly for the Senate yet has been cloned from the DNA of an assassin who is in league with the head of the rebellion, and you don't see that as a plot hole big enough to pilot the Death Star through?

Actually I believe that Yoda merely understands that the army is a tool no more evil or good than the person who controls it.

How did I end up defending a movie I despise?


buzzard

 

[TiQuinn]

Nazi Engineer Wernher von Braun was the chief architect of the American Saturn V rocket. Was that a plot hole too?

Massive plot hole!

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

*Shrug*

I've enjoyed the prequels thus far. I think they're shallower than the originals, lacking the depth, polish, and sense of epic that the originals had. But I'm reserving final judgment until after the third movie. Judging on two-thirds of a story is like judging the Lord of the Rings by the first two volumes.

Unfortunately, I don't hold much hope that EP3 will redeem the plot failings of the first two (and of course it's too late to do anything about the acting or take back characters like Jar Jar). But I want to see the third film before I condemn the entire exercise.

Edit: Realized the original question was "Are you glad the prequels were even made?" I always did want to know what the back story was, and since know we (almost) know, I guess this falls into the category of: be careful what you ask for, you might get it. I'm glad I got the back story; I'm just not completely satisfied with what that backstory is thus far.

 

[John Crichton]

Wow, you got all that from the movie? For me, there's just nothing there in the plot. The plot is completely incidental and didn't make a whole lot of sense:

An army of Jango Fett clones are supposedly being made for the Senate.

Jango Fett works for Count Dooku who is the head of a rebellion.

Yoda suddenly appears at the end with the clone army in tow.

Huh?? Jango Fett is the "Bad" guy, Yoda. The Bad Guy, remember? Why are you showing up with a bunch of his clones?

Others have already defended my point for me but I'll reply anyway.

A plot in a major movie being incidental?? As in he didn't mean for it to come out this way? C'mon, man. He's been working on these things for over 20 years. Sure, not every tiny thing has been planned out but the overall plot has been there for some time. The Palpatine character is one of the best all-time screen villains and he is because of his grand plan and ability to take advantage of situations. These situations have been woven into the plot. For example, Jar Jar being there may have been there for the kiddies but he also has a greater purpose that has been there all along.

As for your "plot hole," it seems like you are looking for one or possibly thinking too hard. The cloners are the best at what they do, the clones have been made with a purpose and the Jedi really had no choice but to use them. The Jedi aren't pushovers, they have just gotten in way over their heads. Hence, having to use the clone army. The Clone army is in place because of a dead master, who will probably turn out to be Sideous. We all know the council will fall and all but 2 of these Jedi will be killed. This is how.

Star Wars plots have never been to tough to decipher, you just have to sit back and let them come. I've always thought that one of the stronger aspects of all the movies have been that they work on a few levels and there is alot going on in many of the scenes that take multiple viewings to get. Same technique was used in Citizen Kane, which is why you can rewatch it an almost get a different view of the entire film.

 

[jdavis]

Yoda leading a massive army supposedly for the Senate yet has been cloned from the DNA of an assassin who is in league with the head of the rebellion, and you don't see that as a plot hole big enough to pilot the Death Star through?

Yoda is leading a massive army of preprogrammed clones who have been genetically engineered to be compliant and follow orders, all that Jango Fett supplied was a template for the bodies, the brains have been altered to make them into good little soldiers instead of greedy little bounty hunters. This was spelled out in the movie. Look I'll step through it nice and easy: Palpatine uses the Trade Federation to attack Naboo to raise sympathy for himself so he can become Channcellor. The Trade Federation feels it was betrayed by this Darth Sidious person (who is secretly Palpatine) and thus the seed for the sepratist move is planted way back in Phantom Menace. During the interlude between movies Darth Sidious gets a new student Count Dooku (secretly Darth Tyrannus) and he sets out to get a clone army made that will take 10 years to be ready. Then the bit that seems to be bothering you here, Count Dooku (as Tyrannus) hires Jango Fett to be the template for the clone army being made for his master Palpatine to fight in a war ten years in the future. Palpatine was stuck in the capital so it was probably Dooku who pretended to be Master Siphadeos (or howere you spell it), See Dooku created both armies. Plot hole??? This is really tight stuff here, who else would be the template for a army for Darth Sidious than somebody hired by his student Darth Tyrannus? See the sith lords are working in secret and the movie is being filmed like we don't know Palpatine and Sidious are the same person, but due to the fact that I have seen Return of the Jedi I know how it all turns out. Palpatine is secretly a Dark Lord of the Sith who secretly overthrows the Republic from within over a 30 year arc. He hasn't revealed himself to be Palpatine yet, nobody knows. Count Dooku wasn't trying to overthrow the Republic he was setting up a bunch of greedy and unhappy planets as a military thread so that he could be granted unilateral power (which is exactly what happened when he manipulated the retarded Jar Jar into basically destroying the Galactic Senate). Palpatine needs a war so he doesn't have to relinquish the powers given to him by the senate till he is strong enough to disband them (happened off screen at the first of Star Wars). He is also trying to kill every last Jedi out there (except Annikin, you mean you didn't noticed that Dooku force pushed Annikin away after chopped his arm off instead of just killing him where he stood.) and the clone war is a good way to do it (in the next movie all the Jedi except Obi Wan and Yoda die, hope I didn't spoil anything for you). Here is another one you might of missed, the clone troopers and the Stormtroopers are the exact same thing, see the costumes are a little different but they are the exact same thing, stormtroopers have always been clones it was implied in the first set of movies. This is the army of the Empire, Yoda isn't leading it in the Senates name he is leading it in Chanellor Palpatine's name (remember Palpatine took over emergency power, the senate has no power to order anything anymore). See Palpatine and Dooku are in league with each other (wasn't that obvious? they came out and said Dooku was Tyrannus student of Sidious and even showed them together in the end) and the whole Clone war was a big set up, one was leading the Republic and one was leading the separitist. Dooku was the person who had both armies created (I mean come on Jango Fett was the template for the clones, doesn't that make it obvious that Dooku was behind their creation, they even told you Dooku was Tyrannus, this is spelled out in the movie.) Now why did Yoda fall into the trap? Well tehy spelled that one out too, Yoda and Mace had a big conversation about how their ability to see the future witht he force was waning, why was it waning? Well it's because Palpatine was a Dark Lord of the Sith who had emense power who was manipulating them from the start. I mean come on we know how things turn out here, all the Jedi die and the Republic becomes the empire and Annikin Skywalker becomes Darth Vader (which means that Dooku has to die in the next movie because it was stated in Phantom Menace that there could be only two Sith Lords, which also goes back to Jedi where the Emperor told Luke to kill Vader and take his place). The big hope for the good guys is that Obi Wan is able to escape with Annikin's twin children without Vader or Palpatine knowing they existed, those children have three freaking movies about them already made.

Ok lets go back to your plot hole to wrap all this up. Yes Yoda is leading a massive clone army for the Republic lead by Palpatine, who is secretly Darth Sidious, to go fight against the Separitist leader Count Dooku, who is secretly Darth Tyrannis, who's minion is Jango Fett who was the template for the clones, gee it all makes perfect sense to me, no wonder you didn't like the movies you completly missed the whole freaking plot and thought it was a plot hole. It was all a big setup, Palpatine was pulling the strings for both sides here. The fact that Count Dooku was Darth Tyrannus was a secret (the Trade Federation was trying to separate because they thought that Darth Sidious who betrayed them in Phantom Menace was secretly running the Republic....... Well he was as it turns out, they would never of followed Dooku if they new he was Darth Tyrannus, even Dooku uses this misdirection on Obi Wan when he temps him to join the separitist). The whole plot of Attack of the Clones is about how Palpatine manipulated everybody into a war so he could gain absolute power. In Return of the Jedi they go into how Palpatine is a master stratigist witht he power to forsee the future and how he controls the galaxy with guile and misdirection. This is the story of how he used guile and misdirection to overthrow the Republic and eliminate all the Jedi. This storyline has been in the making since 1976, this isn't something Lucas threw together at the last minute, there are no random happenings in any of the 5 and soon to be 6 Star Wars movies, this story arc has been over 20 years in the making, this story is tight and well thought out. The problem here is that all these characters say the stupidest things and are put in awkward situations. It's the details that are killing Star Wars, it's the way the characters are being presented not the story of the Galaxy that is at fault.

Look I'm not making this stuff up or talking out my ass here this is how it is written, it is shot for a big suprise ending where Palpatine is revealed to be Darth Sidious so he doesn't spell everything out, but who Palpatine is isn't really a secret here now is it, this is one of my favorite parts of the crappy movies, it's where I can see the diamond they could of been, he shoots these movies as if people never saw the others because those movies are in the future of this timeline. The identity of Palpatine is kept secret in the movies even though it's common knowledge for the people watching. Everything that has happened in all the new movies will be revealed to be Palpatine's master plan in the next movie, but we already know that because we have seen the first three movies. It's a tremendously deep and well woven tapestry of a plot, and it is one of the best storylines ever written, just becasue the movies are sub par doesn't mean the story they are based on is.

Huge spoiler for next movie

Spoiler

leaked storyline fromt he next movie is that Palpatine uses the force to cause the clones to turn on the jedi and kill them at the end of the clone wars, see the clones were created so they could be easily manipulated by Palpatine, so them being clones of Jango Fett was most definatly not a accident or a plot hole

 

[myrdden]

Holy text-block jdavis!

Good summary of the plot though. I completely agree that the plot of the movies is very solid and well thought out, but the details (and somethimes the execution) are hurting them.

I'm glad they were made, but a bit dissatisifed with the results.

Myrdden

 

[John Crichton]

Holy text-block jdavis!

Yeah, well done on the plot breakdown but I needed to wipe the blood out of my eyes a few times.

Also, thank you for blocking out the Ep.3 spoiler. I am avoiding all knowledge of the plot for it.

 

[TiQuinn]

Others have already defended my point for me but I'll reply anyway.

A plot in a major movie being incidental?? As in he didn't mean for it to come out this way? C'mon, man. He's been working on these things for over 20 years. Sure, not every tiny thing has been planned out but the overall plot has been there for some time. The Palpatine character is one of the best all-time screen villains and he is because of his grand plan and ability to take advantage of situations. These situations have been woven into the plot. For example, Jar Jar being there may have been there for the kiddies but he also has a greater purpose that has been there all along.

I don't buy the George Lucas has had this in an outline in his desk drawer for the past 20 years. Yes, the plot is incidental. It makes little sense, and is very underwhelming. If this is what he's been concocting for the past two decades, he's an even worse storyteller than I imagined. Palpatine isn't a great screen villain. The Emperor in full regalia was. Darth Vader was a great screen villain. This time around, he has little screen presence. It's very easy to forget that he's pulling the strings from behind the curtains, and in this kind of movie, that's a bad, bad thing.