D&D 5E Armor in D&DNext

[frankthedm]

Henchman, mercenaries, and NPC guards and soldiers.

Those market prices aren't just what adventures deal with for their own gear, but also barons and warlords (NPC or high-level PCs someday).

When you've got to outfit a hundred men-at-arms "top of the line" is not longer a given.

- Marty Lund

Still doesn't excuse ringmail costing more, weighing more and allowing less dex bonus than studded leather with the same amount of armor. You are paying extra to load your troops down. The only use I could imagine is to pull a Pointy Haired Boss maneuver so you can boast to one's supreme ruler you have "upgraded" troops from light to medium armor.

 

[Stalker0]

A little silly? THIS IS SPARTA!

Its true, even though the 300 reference might seem far-fetched, most Greek/Roman style armor was of a leather/studded leather variety. The majority of their protection came from their shields and formation.

 

[Klaus]

Still doesn't excuse ringmail costing more, weighing more and allowing less dex bonus than studded leather with the same amount of armor. You are paying extra to load your troops down. The only use I could imagine is to pull a Pointy Haired Boss maneuver so you can boast to one's supreme ruler you have "upgraded" troops from light to medium armor.

Ringmail has no business being there, since it is just leather reinforced with metal bits (being the same as studded leather).

 

[Trance-Zg]

I would like to see:
Max dex mechanic from 3e and only to armor categories from4e.
best of both worlds.


Light armor:
name.......................cost.....AC bonus...max dex...skill penalty...speed

leather armor............10gp........+2..............+5..............-0........-0
studded leather.........25gp........+3..............+4..............-0........-0
chain shirt................75gp........+4..............+3..............-1........-0


heavy armor:
name.......................cost....AC bonus...max dex...skill penalty...speed

scale mail................100gp.........+5.............+3............-1........-5ft
chain mail................200gp.........+6.............+2............-2........-5ft
banded mail.............300gp.........+7..............+1............-3.......-5ft
plate mail................500gp.........+8..............+0............-4.......-5ft

 

[eamon]

I think the armor system is just a little untweaked. The pricing is off, mostly.

Judging by the pregens, 20's in stats aren't happening - there are no 20's, no 19's, and just one 18.

So, I'm going to assume these to be balanced for Dex at best up to 16, and possibly lower.

At Dex 16, all tier 4 armors are equivalent. I don't have a problem with the truly exceptional 18 (if this isn't 4e-style point buy but instead rolled stats or an equivalent-to-rolled point buy, then an 18 is rare) has 1 AC higher than heavy armor.

In any case, the numbers aren't far off. The pricing definitely is, however.

I kind of like the system - it's like 4e, but with medium armor. Needs some tuning, but the basics look sound.

 

[El Mahdi]

Ringmail has no business being there, since it is just leather reinforced with metal bits (being the same as studded leather).

Well, since Ringmail actually existed, and Studded Leather didn't, I'd say it has a better qualification to be there than Studded.

Studded Leather is just a misinterpretation of medieval art showing Brigandine. If we want to call Brigandine "Studded Leather" instead, I have no problem with that...just as long as it's characterized in the rules properly (play, weight and description). I'd also prefer that Chain Mail not be used, and instead just call it "Mail" (as in Mail Shirt and Full Mail), but since it's just a matter of terms with no effect on play, I can live with it.

But for play purposes, Ring Mail should swap places with Studded Leather. In reality, Studded Leather (Brigandine) is significantly heavier than Ring Mail (which is just steel or iron rings affixed to soft or hardened leather armor, where Brigandine is plates of iron or steel sandwiched inside two layers of leather {or canvas} and "fixed" with metal studs).

Also, I think the Chain Shirt should be medium armor. That weight is way off, and it's more "bulky" than Studded Leather (Brigandine) due to it's poor weight distribution.

I was hoping one thing that 5E would do is stop reinforcing D&D as a Genre unto itself, and reflect real armor and weapons (instead of perpetuating the mistakes that were made in the very beginning of D&D and copied forward with every iteration). Apparently were starting right off with the same mistakes D&D has always had (as concerns this - for the most part, the play of these base rules works really well for me - but I do have some pointed feedback for WotC, and will likely have more...)


*(speaking of weapons, I wish we'd get away from using the terms Longsword and Bastard Sword to differentiate different weapons...they are the same thing - instead use one-handed sword for the standard Knights/Viking/Arming Sword, Longsword/Bastard Sword for a sword that can be used one or two handed, and two-handed sword for the two-handed only great swords)

 

[Klaus]

Well, since Ringmail actually existed, and Studded Leather didn't, I'd say it has a better qualification to be there than Studded.

Studded Leather is just a misinterpretation of medieval art showing Brigandine. If we want to call Brigandine "Studded Leather" instead, I have no problem with that...just as long as it's characterized in the rules properly (play, weight and description). I'd also prefer that Chain Mail not be used, and instead just call it "Mail" (as in Mail Shirt and Full Mail), but since it's just a matter of terms with no effect on play, I can live with it.

But for play purposes, Ring Mail should swap places with Studded Leather. In reality, Studded Leather (Brigandine) is significantly heavier than Ring Mail (which is just steel or iron rings affixed to soft or hardened leather armor, where Brigandine is plates of iron or steel sandwiched inside two layers of leather {or canvas} and "fixed" with metal studs).

Also, I think the Chain Shirt should be medium armor. That weight is way off, and it's more "bulky" than Studded Leather (Brigandine) due to it's poor weight distribution.

I was hoping one thing that 5E would do is stop reinforcing D&D as a Genre unto itself, and reflect real armor and weapons (instead of perpetuating the mistakes that were made in the very beginning of D&D and copied forward with every iteration). Apparently were starting right off with the same mistakes D&D has always had (as concerns this - for the most part, the play of these base rules works really well for me - but I do have some pointed feedback for WotC, and will likely have more...)


*(speaking of weapons, I wish we'd get away from using the terms Longsword and Bastard Sword to differentiate different weapons...they are the same thing - instead use one-handed sword for the standard Knights/Viking/Arming Sword, Longsword/Bastard Sword for a sword that can be used one or two handed, and two-handed sword for the two-handed only great swords)

I assume that by "ring mail" you mean leather armor reinforced with metal rings, such as this one , which is essentially the same as what we call "studded leather".

I'm in favor of condensing the armor table by broadening what each type of armor looks like. And I agree, "chain shirt" should only apply to the type of armor Frodo wears. Anything else is chainmail.

 

[slobster]

I was hoping one thing that 5E would do is stop reinforcing D&D as a Genre unto itself

I'm not judging any of the substance of what you wrote in your post, here. I personally don't care about that level of historical accuracy in my games, but that also means that if they decided to be more accurate, I wouldn't be at all upset.

But one thing that I think the design team has absolutely been trying to do (and you can see it in their interviews and blog posts) is reassert the idea of D&D as a genre unto itself, with a distinct and shared culture and vocabulary. So you might be a little disappointed at how things shake out.

 

[Jeff Carlsen]

I would definitely suggest merging some armors together, at least for the core. Perhaps an advanced equipment module could deal with the intricacies of the various armor types.

For example, let all the reinforced, studded, or otherwise enhanced leather armor simply be leather armor. Do the same for splint or banded armor as well. Then adjust the numbers accordingly.

Thus:

Armor              Price     Armor Class

Light
    Leather        10gp      12 + Dex
    Chain Shirt    75gp      13 + Dex
    Mithral Chain  2500gp    14 + Dex
Medium
    Scale          100gp     14 + Half Dex
    Brigandine     500gp     15 + Half Dex
    Dragon Scale   5000gp    16 + Half Dex
Heavy
    Chainmail      300gp     16
    Plate Mail     1500gp    17
    Adamantine     15,000gp  18

This includes some very rushed, poorly thought out price adjustments, but it's just an illustration.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I think the table is broken, but I'd prefer to see a simple fix rather than extra math (e.g., armor as DR) or extra die rolls (advantage/disadvantage).

I think either boosting the Heavy Armor numbers by +2 accomplishes this, or allowing the STR mod to add for Heavy only. The latter I think provides an advantage to Medium Armor for low Dex, low Str characters like clerics.

The real issue I see with the current structure as laid out is it potentially makes rogues better than fighters (minus HP difference) since the rogue gains a benefit from prime requisite for attack and defense, with defense and attack potentially equal to the fighter, while the fighter only gains an offensive benefit from his prime requisite -- and we haven't seen a fighter ability to match rogue sneak attack's damage output yet. A high-dex rogue is potentially a better tank than a fighter, at least for a short fight. In a long fight, there is still the ablative hit point defense, which favors fighters and separates characters at higher levels but not at lower levels.