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Avengers: Endgame SPOILER THREAD

ccs

39th lv DM
Then why did they wrap up every other character (with the exception of Hawkeye who is getting a TV series). Why not pass on the hammer like they did with the shield?
Because maybe their not done with him yet? Or haven't decided one way or another yet?
So best to leave it vague & be flexible for the moment.

If Thor is never in another movie would you feel satisfied with this ending?
Yep. 100%.


Yeah. But we already knew there was a multiverse from Into the Spider-Verse.
Or that the MCU has always been Earth-199999.
That’s not really new to Marvel.
So now we're counting Spiderverse as cannon MCU? What about every other appearance - animated or live-action - of Marvel characters through the decades?
 

Jester David

Villager
So now we're counting Spiderverse as cannon MCU? What about every other appearance - animated or live-action - of Marvel characters through the decades?
It’s a Marvel film. They are a “canon” for Marvel and all part of the same multiverse.

The regular comic Marvel Universe is Earth-616. Spider-Verse is Earth-1610. The MCU is Earth-199999. The X-Men films are on Earth-10005. The 2002 Spider-man is from Earth-96283
 

ccs

39th lv DM
And, why didn't Hulk come out in Avengers: Infinity War? There's no answer in the movie; no resolution. It's just a dropped plot point. You can speculate or guess, but the fact is they just didn't answer the question.
Well, in the movie I saw I clearly heard Bruce explain to the group how the IW loss was worse for him. He lost not once, but twice!

So I don't have to speculate or guess. Hulk was afraid. IW showed me the hulk getting his ass kicked & his later refusal to emerge. In EG Banner told it to me. What more do I need? Joe Russo sitting in the seat beside me personally explaining it?
 

MarkB

Adventurer
Which is why I also had him giving up the hammer.
For someone so concerned about Thor's character growth, I'm surprised you completely missed the point of his character growth in Thor Ragnarok. He already lost his hammer, then came to understand that he no longer needed it.

He's not Thor, God of Hammers. He doesn't need a prop in order to channel his power anymore. If he gave up Mjolnir he'd still be an all-powerful thunder god, capable of facing any world-threatening calamity.
 

Jester David

Villager
For someone so concerned about Thor's character growth, I'm surprised you completely missed the point of his character growth in Thor Ragnarok. He already lost his hammer, then came to understand that he no longer needed it.

He's not Thor, God of Hammers. He doesn't need a prop in order to channel his power anymore. If he gave up Mjolnir he'd still be an all-powerful thunder god, capable of facing any world-threatening calamity.
And then he got another hammer. Which was also BS.
Because they have no idea what to do with Thor...
 

ccs

39th lv DM
It’s a Marvel film. They are a “canon” for Marvel and all part of the same multiverse.

The regular comic Marvel Universe is Earth-616. Spider-Verse is Earth-1610. The MCU is Earth-199999. The X-Men films are on Earth-10005. The 2002 Spider-man is from Earth-96283
Do you also count:
The Captain America serial (from the 40s)
The '67 Spiderman cartoon
Spiderman & his Amazing friends from the '80s
The Incredible Hulk, Captain America, & Spiderman live actions from the 70s/80s.
The 90s Captain America movie.
The assorted Marvel animated series from the 90's+ (XM, Spidy, FF etc)
David Hasslehoffs Nick Fury, Dolph Lungrens Punisher, Gen X
The Blade series.
Ben Afflecks Daredevil
2 more Punisher movies
Nick Cage's Ghost Rider movies
Ang Lee's Hulk
The Sony Fantastic Four movies (FF, FF:RotSS & that reboot)
Venom
Legion
Whatever I might've missed....
The Netflix series (yes, I know these + SHIELD & Agent Carter are in the MCUverse - but if you can accept that none of these guys (especially the SHIELD crew) would get involved in Avengers stuff then you shouldn't be worried about not featuring Thor in a future event)

*I'll be nice & leave Roger Corman's FF and 3 Dev Adam off this list as one wasn't intended to be released & the other wasn't an authorized use of Cap & Spidy.
 

Jester David

Villager
Fine. :):):):) it. I’m wrong not to like what they did with Thor.
Let’s all laugh at fat people. Ha ha, you’re all lazy, clumsy fat chumps. Gamers are useless cowards. It’s cool that they made a favorite character of mine a walking joke.

Whatever.
 

Jester David

Villager
Do you also count:
The Captain America serial (from the 40s)
The '67 Spiderman cartoon
Spiderman & his Amazing friends from the '80s
The Incredible Hulk, Captain America, & Spiderman live actions from the 70s/80s.
The 90s Captain America movie.
The assorted Marvel animated series from the 90's+ (XM, Spidy, FF etc)
David Hasslehoffs Nick Fury, Dolph Lungrens Punisher, Gen X
The Blade series.
Ben Afflecks Daredevil
2 more Punisher movies
Nick Cage's Ghost Rider movies
Ang Lee's Hulk
The Sony Fantastic Four movies (FF, FF:RotSS & that reboot)
Venom
Legion
Whatever I might've missed....
The Netflix series (yes, I know these + SHIELD & Agent Carter are in the MCUverse - but if you can accept that none of these guys (especially the SHIELD crew) would get involved in Avengers stuff then you shouldn't be worried about not featuring Thor in a future event)

*I'll be nice & leave Roger Corman's FF and 3 Dev Adam off this list as one wasn't intended to be released & the other wasn't an authorized use of Cap & Spidy.
They all have Earths.
https://fanlore.org/wiki/List_of_Marvel_Universes
 

MarkB

Adventurer
And then he got another hammer. Which was also BS.
Because they have no idea what to do with Thor...
Yeah, that I'll grant you is a failing of the Avengers movies - they feel free to ignore any elements of the standalone movies that take the cast away from their standard depictions. Most jarring in Age of Ultron where they essentially ignore the whole "I gave up all my suits" bit in Iron Man 3 in favour of Tony building an entire army of robot suits in addition to building more suits for himself.
 

ccs

39th lv DM
And then he got another hammer. Which was also BS.
Because they have no idea what to do with Thor...
Would you prefer that he accidently summoned his Ultimates style hammer or Bill's Stormbreaker? Vs having a giant Tyrion make it?
Or maybe you'd prefer his dumb looking axe from recent years of the comics?
 

ccs

39th lv DM
Right. The Marvel Cinematic MULTIverse is a big place. So if you're willing to call all this {crap} cannon for the MCU line of movies, what's your beef with Thor just flying away & maybe not ever being used again? And likely with no explanation of why he wouldn't come running back when the poop hits the fan for avengers 8 or such. Like I said earlier, maybe he's just far far away atm. (you know, 4 universes aware & down the rabbit hole by about 3 divergent timelines - and busy. Could take a moment to get back....)
 

Blue

Orcus on a bad day
Probably. It was probably a requirement of him joining Team Stark.
Presumably he just didn't need permission to do things like stop muggers and ATM thieves. Citizen arrest type stuff.

It's a weakness of the MCU that we never got a full examination of what the Sokovia Accords actually limited. And never got to see if they succeeded or failed.
As a minor he would have had to have his parent or legal guardian sign them, and Aunt May doesn't seem to know he's Spidey. So it seems pretty clear he couldn't have signed them / had them signed on his behalf.
 

Blue

Orcus on a bad day
[Thor] has to threaten twelve year olds playing video games.
Just to share, the line from my youngest daughter on the car ride home was "I'm not sure I like that NoobSlayer69 existing is now canon for the MCU."

:)

Would that work for Cap? Iron Man. Can you imagine if they had decided to just make fun of Captain America continually for the entire movie?
You mean like they already did to Cap in Spider-Man: Homecoming? Where there was the running gag about his gawd-awful PSAs for students that he was decades out of touch with?

All of the MCU movies have humor. Look at how many times things have gone humorously wrong for Tony, in his own Ironman films or in various Avengers.

Thor has been the butt of jokes in his own shows, often because of his brother Loki, who hate gnomish paladins with rapiers .. wait, wrong Loki. *ahem* But Ragnarok came and put Thor in that role again and again ... and it worked. Even Hulk outsmarted him with the shocking door field, plus Grandmaster, Valkyrie, and the whole dang environment. Ragnarok did much better than the other Thor movies - grossing greater than 50% more than either of the first two. ($315mil vs. $181mil and $206mil.)

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/franchises/chart/?id=thor.htm

So yes, they found that, like Starlord ("Who?"), Thor did well as the butt-monkey for jokes to be made at. Trying to say that every character should have an equal amount of comedy should be self-evident as wrong - you can't say "this wouldn't work for Cap so it can't be done to Thor".

He abandons the throne at the end of Dark World. Him taking the throne and leading his people at the end of Ragnarok was character growth. But he's never given a chance to "rule" and then all but abandons his people to sit in a room, getting drunk and playing Fortnite. Having Thor actually assume the responsibility and *act* like a king—to take the job seriously—would have been a decent end to the character.
So what I'm hearing is - if they wanted to get rid of Thor, they had a great way to do it. That's great, but it seems they don't want to get rid of Thor.

Having him bugger off with Star-lord with more adventures is just returning Thor to where he was before Age of Ultron. Without even Jane Foster really. Heck, so he's pretty much the wandering warrior he was at the beginning of Thor.
I'm with you on this - I don't like all the backsliding of his character growth. He's doing what he always did, which would have been in character if he hadn't grown.

Again, I think the writers just had zero idea what to do with Thor as a character. So they decided to just rely on Chris Hemsworth's effortless charm and perfect comedic timing. So rather than make Thor into a character people care about and give people a reason to like Thor—like they did for Captain America and Iron Man—they changed Thor to match the actor.
And because the actor is willing to stick around, he's likely in Guardians 3. Not because he really belongs with that team or has a role to play in the next cosmic story. But because the actor has chemistry with Chris Pratt. Where he will likely continue to be a giant walking joke.
All of this is likely true. If Hemsworth will stay around as Thor, the studio will have him. If Ragnarok did fantastic financially because he has great comedic timing, putting him with one of the two high comedy teams (Ant-Man is the other, btu that's not as natural a pairing) so that they can math the tone of the movies also makes financial sense.

Does what actors want to do, and what brings in profit, always make the best story for everyone? I wish, but it doesn't. If it did, we'd have more Robert Downey Jr.

Hemsworth has draw, is in with an MCU team where he can use his comedic talents, and moviegoers know that the GotG films will have a lot of comedy and if that's not their wish they can avoid them. It's not the best it can be, and lets us down some in that they aren't acknowledging the great character growth he's had over the series. But people will still pay to see the next movie.
 

Kaodi

Adventurer
Was the hammer sound at the end of the credits taken from when Tony was building his original makeshift armour in that cave?
 

lowkey13

Exterminate all rational thought
Thor has been the butt of jokes in his own shows, often because of his brother Loki, who hate gnomish paladins with rapiers .. wait, wrong Loki. *ahem*
Fun fact- Loki's last words, when Thanos was snuffing out his life, were, "Avenge me not on Thanos, but on paladins."

Bonus fun fact- Tom Hiddleston's amazing series, the Night Manager, largely consisted of his efforts to rid hotels around the world of gnomes.



(Note- all fun facts guaranteed to consist of truth-like substance)
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Then why did they wrap up every other character (with the exception of Hawkeye who is getting a TV series).
Winter Soldier and Falcon get a series. Vision (who is dead!) and Wanda get a series. Loki gets a series. There's talk of a "What If...?" series that could touch on any character.

Seems to me lots of characters are getting some form of follow-on or further storytelling.

Why not pass on the hammer like they did with the shield?
Business wise, though Hemsworth has become terribly expensive, he hasn't publicly expressed a desire to be done with it nearly as much, so maybe they'll use him again, maybe not?

In a narrative sense, Captain America and Thor play different roles. Cap is more of a symbol to people than Thor is. Didn't you listen to Falcon? He mused that he had problems considering a world that didn't have Captain America. Cap said, in essence, "You don't have to." Nobody is having a problem imagining the world without Thor - he's spent far more of his time off Earth.

If Thor is never in another movie would you feel satisfied with this ending?
Yep. I'm good.


Yeah. But we already knew there was a multiverse from Into the Spider-Verse.
Into the Spider-Verse is *NOT* MCU canon. At all.

That’s not really new to Marvel.
It is, however, new to the movie universe. Until now, they have not used this trope within the movies.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
If he’s off fighting and saving lives, and there’s a big galactic wide threat, why would he stay out? If Earth is in danger, why wouldn’t be Bifrost from across the galaxy to help?
Carol Danvers already answered this question. It is a big universe, and there are thousands of planets that don't have Earth's Mightiest Heroes to defend it. They establish that Earth is not unique in needing support from super-powered beings.

The MCU has chosen the position that there's action happening off camera, which is the same as the comics - not every hero or villain appears in the pages of a comic every month. We don't see all of them all the time. Sometimes, they are out of the frame, but we can assume they are not just sitting doing nothing. Thor is 1500 years old - he's had a ton of adventures we have never seen, and we should not assume we see all the ones to come in the future.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
It’s a Marvel film.
No, it isn't. It is a *SONY* film. While they list is as "in association with Marvel" it isn't like Sony is bound to things that happen in the MCU, or vice versa. Marvel's creative control over what Sony does in its movies (including, say, the Venom films) is limited. Sony and Marvel have a special deal around having Spider-Man in the MCU, but that deal doesn't cover the rest of the Marvel content Sony has movie rights to.

The regular comic Marvel Universe is Earth-616. Spider-Verse is Earth-1610. The MCU is Earth-199999. The X-Men films are on Earth-10005. The 2002 Spider-man is from Earth-96283
Um, not quite. Earth-1610 is the universe of the Ultimates line of Marvel comics. It is the first place we see Miles Morales. It has also been destroyed, and the Miles Morales of that universe has moved to Earth-616.

Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse focuses its action on what is referred to as Earth-TRN700. The "TRN" stands for "Temporary Reality Number", and is used for things that Marvel *hasn't* given a permanent reality number to. Basically, the comics canon does not yet solidly accept Into the Spider-Verse and it's several realities as canon, yet.

The movie references "E-1610" in the background, but that is an Easter Egg. Miles Morales of Earth-1610 has an established backstory in the comics canon, and it does *not* include the events of the movie. This is yet another universe, where only Spider-Man elements appear, and is *not* the same as the Marvel Comics Earth-1610.
 
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