Avengers: Endgame SPOILER THREAD

[Jester David]

Correct. But, the only true ends in the movie are Black Widow, Tony Stark, and Cap. Everyone else has ways forwards as heroes.

Well, Hawkeye was retired already. So he returns to retirement with his family and has an "end". Back to retirement really. (Although, they're talking about a mini-series on Disney+ to pass the Hawkeye torch to Kate Bishop.)
Hulk... is smart and lost an arm. So he's likely just being a scientist guy again and not being a hero. Again, he found his happy ending between movies.
So that's five out of the six.

The old wild card was Thor, who was expected to have an end, but they changed their mind at the last minute because Ragnarok did well and the actor wants to stick around...

With respect, he gets minutes of screen time, not hours.

Minutes spread out over the hours.
Pretty much every single scene with Thor is laughing at him. After the prologue, every scene Thor is a part of is him being the fat comedic relief.
His role in the film is being Melissa McCarthy/ Chris Farley.

Even a character that pretty much wholly exists as comedic relief (like Groot or Rocket) got wholehearted honestly emotional scenes in their films. Thor doesn't. He's continually the punchline. And his emotional pain and psychological trauma is treated as a freakin' joke. Oh, he lost everything and failed everyone and is now an overweight alcoholic. He has to threaten twelve year olds playing video games. He has to run away from his ex, likely dooming people again to get drink. Ha ing ha.

Would that work for Cap? Iron Man. Can you imagine if they had decided to just make fun of Captain America continually for the entire movie? If they had stuck Chris Evans in the fat suit and made Cap give rambling speeches while running away from his mission because he wasn't able to lead the team.
Heck, Iron Man would make sense as a drunk. Demon in a Bottle is a famous character arc. Just a drunken Tony being extra belligerent with people making jokes about if he still fits in the armour. And then the scene in the 1950s where he meets his dad again, his father tells him to ease off the drink and stick to salad.

Iron Man gets an amazing and touching scene where he makes peace with his dad and gets to say "goodbye", which was a major regret from Civil War. Thor gets shade cast on him from his mom.

Here, I disagree strongly. For most of his movies, Thor has been saying that the doesn't want to be king. Odin remarks upon it, that he has one son that wants the throne to much, and another that doesn't want it at all. He reluctantly takes it on at the end of Ragnarok, and then... immediately fails to protect his people (against an overwhelming force, but still) before they can even reach a planet!

How long does he have to go on before he is allowed to realize that "duty" or not (duty by right of birth, really?) he isn't really suited to the job of ruling? That he is doing his people a *service* by being the action hero he's really built to be, instead of an administrator?

He abandons the throne at the end of Dark World. Him taking the throne and leading his people at the end of Ragnarok was character growth. But he's never given a chance to "rule" and then all but abandons his people to sit in a room, getting drunk and playing Fortnite. Having Thor actually assume the responsibility and *act* like a king—to take the job seriously—would have been a decent end to the character.

Having him bugger off with Star-lord with more adventures is just returning Thor to where he was before Age of Ultron. Without even Jane Foster really. Heck, so he's pretty much the wandering warrior he was at the beginning of Thor.

Again, I think the writers just had zero idea what to do with Thor as a character. So they decided to just rely on Chris Hemsworth's effortless charm and perfect comedic timing. So rather than make Thor into a character people care about and give people a reason to like Thor—like they did for Captain America and Iron Man—they changed Thor to match the actor.
And because the actor is willing to stick around, he's likely in Guardians 3. Not because he really belongs with that team or has a role to play in the next cosmic story. But because the actor has chemistry with Chris Pratt. Where he will likely continue to be a giant walking joke.

 

[Janx]

Side Question: Did Peter Parker ever register under the Sokovia Accords?

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Istbor]

He abandons the throne at the end of Dark World. Him taking the throne and leading his people at the end of Ragnarok was character growth. But he's never given a chance to "rule" and then all but abandons his people to sit in a room, getting drunk and playing Fortnite. Having Thor actually assume the responsibility and *act* like a king—to take the job seriously—would have been a decent end to the character.

Having him bugger off with Star-lord with more adventures is just returning Thor to where he was before Age of Ultron. Without even Jane Foster really. Heck, so he's pretty much the wandering warrior he was at the beginning of Thor.

Again, I think the writers just had zero idea what to do with Thor as a character. So they decided to just rely on Chris Hemsworth's effortless charm and perfect comedic timing. So rather than make Thor into a character people care about and give people a reason to like Thor—like they did for Captain America and Iron Man—they changed Thor to match the actor.
And because the actor is willing to stick around, he's likely in Guardians 3. Not because he really belongs with that team or has a role to play in the next cosmic story. But because the actor has chemistry with Chris Pratt. Where he will likely continue to be a giant walking joke.

I think we did see character growth. I think the disconnect is that it what is expected is linear. Instead what I see happening is Thor trying to fit into this role he was told and expected to fit into. And as his mother tell him, is that he should be who he is, and not what he is expected to be.

Maybe, what he is, is just a rogue warrior out there trying to right wrongs. He's an adventurer. He now maybe realizes this. So he leaves Valkyrie as the leader of the Asgardians, not abandoning them.

So yeah. I see growth. I didn't laugh at him because he was fat the entire time, I laughed because Thor is slowly realizing that as he thought, he isn't King, and that's totally okay. Maybe now he can finally feel guilt free for being who he is, and for not following in with other's expectations of him. I'd say we could all use a bit of that same feeling.

 

[Umbran]

Side Question: Did Peter Parker ever register under the Sokovia Accords?

I don't believe it is ever made clear. I think the answer is "probably not".

 

[Jester David]

Side Question: Did Peter Parker ever register under the Sokovia Accords?

Probably. It was probably a requirement of him joining Team Stark.
Presumably he just didn't need permission to do things like stop muggers and ATM thieves. Citizen arrest type stuff.

It's a weakness of the MCU that we never got a full examination of what the Sokovia Accords actually limited. And never got to see if they succeeded or failed.

 

[Jester David]

I think we did see character growth. I think the disconnect is that it what is expected is linear. Instead what I see happening is Thor trying to fit into this role he was told and expected to fit into. And as his mother tell him, is that he should be who he is, and not what he is expected to be.

Which is rolling back his past character arcs. And, hey, he's a prince: they seldom get to be who they are expected to be.

Maybe, what he is, is just a rogue warrior out there trying to right wrongs. He's an adventurer. He now maybe realizes this. So he leaves Valkyrie as the leader of the Asgardians, not abandoning them.

The catch is, that doesn't work for the MCU. Because then you have to wonder why Thor doesn't come back and help. Because he's a rogue warrior out there trying to right wrongs.
So why isn't he helping when the inevitable Avengers 5 happens?

Instead, he needs to have his "end" in Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 3. Which feels weird, as that should be about the Guardians and wrapping up their story.

 

[Istbor]

Which is rolling back his past character arcs. And, hey, he's a prince: they seldom get to be who they are expected to be.


The catch is, that doesn't work for the MCU. Because then you have to wonder why Thor doesn't come back and help. Because he's a rogue warrior out there trying to right wrongs.
So why isn't he helping when the inevitable Avengers 5 happens?

Instead, he needs to have his "end" in Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 3. Which feels weird, as that should be about the Guardians and wrapping up their story.

I guess you already know how all the movies and arcs go. So I will just end my bit with:
Yeah. Sometimes you have to find out who or what you are not, to discover who you are. Seems like Thor is doing that. He is not a King, prince or no. Seems like he is okay with that now, finally. Maybe they will change it all back, who knows.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Well, we need to hope not. Because in Earth-199999, they are now *gone*. Thanos destroyed them.

So, like, if you were looking or Adam Warlock in Guardians 3... he can't have the Soul Stone in his forehead. Unless they have something like, "Thanos thought he could destroy billions-of-year-old singularities, permanently?!? That's rich! Nope, they reconstitute themselves, and off we go again!"

Cap was sent to put back all the stones they borrowed. We can perhaps presume he succeeded - none of the timelines end up lacking stones they need in what we think of as the past. Going forward, however, if they are necessary for something, there's a problem.

I think using the infinity stones to destroy themselves could be a particular exemption clause for this.

 

[tomBitonti]

Re: Whether Cap is the original. My sense is that we don't know, but in the absence of a direct statement from the movie, to have him be from a different timeline feels unfair to the viewer. I'd prefer that he be the original Cap.

What are Cap years to normal human years anyway? How old is the old looking Cap at the end of the movie? There might a lot of years more in Cap's timeline than the calendar difference between when he arrived in the past to the present.

Thx!
TomB