D&D 5E Balance of Power Problems in 5e: Self created?

[Tony Vargas]

You said that you were 'lost' at the mention of henchmen/hirelings. Obviously, if you really did play those old editions, you knew exactly what they were. So, either what you're saying doesn't add up, or the question was snide or sarcastic in some way that made no sense to me coming in at that point in the conversation.

Either way, from past experience, I guessing you're ready to exchange some rapid-fire hair-splitting and recriminations at this point, so I invite you to enjoy a short vacation on my ignore list. It's the off-season, so rates are low.

Tah!

 

[Corwin]

IMO, quoting someone and immediately putting them on ignore should be a violation of the forum rules and worthy of the ban hammer. It is one of the most petty, underhanded, passive-aggressive tactics on public forums. I hope someone who can read your post reports you.

 

[Corwin]

As for the conversation chain, it was a simple one. Though you missing it shouldn't surprise me.

Someone made reference to a group of like-skilled PCs seeking out another member to join them. One with different strengths. Someone else commented that such a thing was ridiculous. To which, I posted an example using a popular novel/movie wherein the characters did just that. @pemerton then responded to my post something about henchmen (or hirelings). I asked him (directly, not Tony) what that had to do with anything. Then Tony gets in with his history lesson. Still not sure what the dwarves bringing Bilbo onto the team has to do with henchmen (or hirelings). He was made an equal member of the team. By contract. So nothing Tony said makes any sense to me WRT the conversation being had that he injected himself into.

But <shrug>. That's par for the course with certain edition warriors around here.

 

[Nagol]

You said that you were 'lost' at the mention of henchmen/hirelings. Obviously, if you really did play those old editions, you knew exactly what they were. So, either what you're saying doesn't add up, or the question was snide or sarcastic in some way that made no sense to me coming in at that point in the conversation.

Either way, from past experience, I guessing you're ready to exchange some rapid-fire hair-splitting and recriminations at this point, so I invite you to enjoy a short vacation on my ignore list. It's the off-season, so rates are low.

Tah!

To be fair, Corwin got lost by pemerton's comment because Bilbo wasn't a henchperson, he was a (possibly the only) PC in the group.

 

[Corwin]

To be fair, Corwin got lost by pemerton's comment because Bilbo wasn't a henchperson, he was a (possibly the only) PC in the group.

Bingo. And thanks for quoting him so I can see his rules-violating ad hominems.

 

[Tony Vargas]

To be fair, Corwin got lost by pemerton's comment because Bilbo wasn't a henchperson, he was a (possibly the only) PC in the group.

OK, fine.

That makes a little sense. Not "what henchmen/hirelings" (ever existed in D&D)? But, "what henchmen/hireling" (are implied by Bilbo being hired by some Dwarves to fill in a missing skillset)?

Obviously, there are no PCs or NPCs in literature, and D&D PCs don't always map super-well to protagonists, as there's often only one protagonist. So I can see some confusion, there, when the point was not about which side of the DM screen Bilbo or Thorin were being played from, but whether it was reasonable for a party with no PC to fill the niche to go looking for a niche-filler.

Lack of threading strikes again, and I shouldn't have been so abrupt with Corwin over it (Sorry, 'bout that, Mr. Corwin, it appears we've double-booked your spot on the ignore list and can't take you at this time, welcome back, sorry to cut your stay short.)

Going back over the thread, to the comment that sparked the Hobbit reference:

Wait...does your party, on meeting each other and seeing the group is comprised of 5 [warriors/wizards/rogues/clerics - pick one] and nothing else, not realize they're short a few key elements and go out and recruit some people to fill the gaps???
Lanefan

'Recruit some people' is obviously ambiguous. But, Lanefan followed up, making it clearer he was talking NPCs, and, IMHO, implying traditional henchmen/hirelings:

in a setting that is known to have adventuring Clerics who can among other things heal people up - 5 warrior types about to go out in the field realize in-character that they don't have a healer and go out and (try to) recruit or hire one.

Having lots of NPCs in the party does bog things down a bit, for sure; but I still mourn the decline of henches and "adventuring associates".

Well if nobody wants to play a character that brings said pivotal abilities to the table, the choice becomes one of a) recruit an NPC to fill the gap, or b) go without. I'll take the NPC every time.
Lanefan

 

[Lanefan]

'Recruit some people' is obviously ambiguous. But, Lanefan followed up, making it clearer he was talking NPCs, and, IMHO, implying traditional henchmen/hirelings:

Or full-ride party NPCs, whatever.

The semantic (and usually mechanical) difference between these is that a full-ride NPC is about the same level as the party and acts - and is treated - just like any other character, while a hench is both considerably lower level and beholden to whoever hired it. Hirelings are usually things like porters, mule-drivers and so forth who often don't do any actual adventuring at all.

Lanefan

 

[Tony Vargas]

Or full-ride party NPCs, whatever.

The semantic (and usually mechanical) difference between these is that a full-ride NPC is about the same level as the party and acts - and is treated - just like any other character, while a hench is both considerably lower level and beholden to whoever hired it. Hirelings are usually things like porters, mule-drivers and so forth who often don't do any actual adventuring at all.

Lanefan

Reasonable enough. Or like the Leadership feat in 3e.

But you weren't suggesting that the players reject one or more of their characters and say 'come back with a healer,' right?

(Though, full disclosure, I've more than once been in or run for a party with no healer that made the "first one to die rolls a cleric" pact.)

 

[Garthanos]

(Though, full disclosure, I've more than once been in or run for a party with no healer that made the "first one to die rolls a cleric" pact.)

Oh ick always hated the cleric ... its obligatory nature annoyed me, ofcourse now I would build a cleric/invoker give it a vampire feat and call it a bloodwright... sure I heal but its by making
the party members of my blood clan with streamers of blood and the smell of it intensifying your attacks and nightmares I throw in the enemies mind etc.
cheers.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Sounds like he'd be the (un)life of the party.