Banishing Eldritch Blast

[clearstream]

I think there's a little math mistake here, the warlock's attack bonus should be +7, giving it a 70% hit chance.

Scenarios are always fiddly so thank you for pointing that out. One more try!

7th level Ranger with Archery, longbow, Horde Breaker and Hunter's Mark? 7th level Warlock with Agonizing Blast and Hex.
Expecting AC 14.

Ranger (with foes clustered for Horde Breaker)
0.8*(3d8+12+3d6) = 33.9

Ranger (without foes clustered for Horde Breaker)
0.8*(2d8+8+2d6) = 19.2

Warlock (always)
0.7*(2d10+8+2d6) = 18.2

I should add another thing that really stood out in play at the table, but might not seem so obvious. Of the roughly 80 CR 4 foes I have available, 23 have resistance to bludgeoning, piercing and slashing from non-magical weapons, while 1 (one) has immunity to force damage (none have resistance). Stoneskin comes online for some casters at that level. This meant that we found for some of the tougher fights in tier 2 and upward, ranged weapon attacks were problematic. Magical ammunition is hard to find, and typically each piece lasts for a single shot. It's super-easy to overlook how good force is as a damage type, until you see it extensively in play.

 

[Yunru]

Magic ammo? Just use a magic bow.

 

[5ekyu]

Scenarios are always fiddly so thank you for pointing that out. One more try!

7th level Ranger with Archery, longbow, Horde Breaker and Hunter's Mark? 7th level Warlock with Agonizing Blast and Hex.
Expecting AC 14.

Ranger (with foes clustered for Horde Breaker)
0.8*(3d8+12+3d6) = 33.9

Ranger (without foes clustered for Horde Breaker)
0.8*(2d8+8+2d6) = 19.2

Warlock (always)
0.7*(2d10+8+2d6) = 18.2

I should add another thing that really stood out in play at the table, but might not seem so obvious. Of the roughly 80 CR 4 foes I have available, 23 have resistance to bludgeoning, piercing and slashing from non-magical weapons, while 1 (one) has immunity to force damage (none have resistance). Stoneskin comes online for some casters at that level. This meant that we found for some of the tougher fights in tier 2 and upward, ranged weapon attacks were problematic. Magical ammunition is hard to find, and typically each piece lasts for a single shot. It's super-easy to overlook how good force is as a damage type, until you see it extensively in play.

Unless a GM chooses his foes based on random die roll at CR4 (which iirc is neither required nor even recommended) then the nose count from MM have almost no relevance.

Its not how games are actually run in what i have seen.

 

[5ekyu]

Magic ammo? Just use a magic bow.

Magic Weapon 2nd level spell - cast before combat

 

[jgsugden]

It amazes me how many people think they need to 'fix' things that are not broken.

The warlock is not overpowered. Period. Their DPR is not too high, their ability to effectively do powerful cantris with unlimited levitates, etc... is not overpowered. Being able to use melee weapons with a Hexblade by using Charisma is not broken.

All this focus on the power levels of such an evocative class is really missing the entire point of the class.

 

[Hawk Diesel]

It amazes me how many people think they need to 'fix' things that are not broken.

The warlock is not overpowered. Period. Their DPR is not too high, their ability to effectively do powerful cantris with unlimited levitates, etc... is not overpowered. Being able to use melee weapons with a Hexblade by using Charisma is not broken.

All this focus on the power levels of such an evocative class is really missing the entire point of the class.

Sorry, but I disagree. Not about things being broken or not. But every play style and table is different. I think it absolutely is part of this hobby to tweak things to be more aligned with how you use the game or to maximize fun. There is not a class or feat or archetype that I haven't adjusted to some degree.

So sure, you may not see these things as broken. And that's fine. Others do. Neither is wrong.

Except about the Hexblade. That thing is hot garbage compared to what every other patron offers.

 

[AnotQuiteSimpleSoul]

Keep in ind the original intent here wasn't to nerf the warlock but to give them more options, due to how EB gets all those neat buffs it makes it seem like Warlocks shouldn't bother with other damage dealing cantrips despite having a couple of nice ones.

The problem was that the proposed alternative would have deprived the Warlock of it's primary advantage over sorcerers and bards, i.e. the single target cantrip damage, in exchange for making the other cantrips more potents and flexible, but not potent enough to compensate for how EB was perfectly designed to multiply bonus damage.

This was less about power levels and more about trying to let Warlocks be more flexible with their use of cantrips.

 

[Charlaquin]

*Sigh* hit post too early by accident.

 

[Charlaquin]

Personally, I don’t think Eldritch Blast is as much of a staple to Warlocks as it’s made out to be. I mean don’t get me wrong, if single-target DPR at range is what you want to build for, Eldritch Blast+Agonizing Blast+Hex+Maddening Hex is great! But single-target DPR at range is not the only way to make a Warlock stand out from other casters. Standing out from other casters is literally the class’s whole shtick. It’s built right into the chassis with the limited number of spell slots that recover on a short rest and access to a ton of at-will and daily options through Cantrips and Invocations. I’m partial to Warlocks that control the battlefield with Repelling Blast, Grasp of Hadar, and Lance of Lethargy. The Darkness+Devil’s Sight combo is a well-known and solid build, as long as your allies are willing to work around it. Warlocks can make amazing lookouts with Invocations like Eldritch Sight, Witch Sight, and Ghostly Gaze. They can be pretty good gishes with Hexblade, Blade Pact, Thirsting Blade, Life Drinker, Eldritch Smite, Hex, Relentless Hex, Maddening Hex, Booming Blade, etc. They can do the “I have a pet” thing far better than the Beastmaster. Warlocks are so versatile and unique, it’s a little baffling to me that the almost-as-good-at-shooting-as-a-ranger build is being presented as the only way to make them stand out.

 

[Yunru]

It's not a way to make them stand out.
It's a way to let them focus on other things that do make them stand out, without having to worry overmuch about contributing to combat.