Barbarian - likes and dislikes?

[blargney the second]

I don't really like the class. It's the temporary gain in hit points: I think I've seen more character deaths when rage ends than anything else. It's a theoretical gain that ends up being a survival liability: blech.

-blarg

 

[I'm A Banana]

I honestly don't mind the name or the flavor. To suggest that the Barbarian class was supposed to model the Norse or Native Americans or other "barbaric" cultures is LEAGUES more unpleasant to me than a generic "fantasy angry savage fighter archetype" class. Which the barbarian does very nicely. It is pretty much the ideal fantasy angry savage fighter archetype. Fart on source material.

I like that the rage doesn't cause you to attack allies (a tpk because of an ally is never any fun for anyone, is it?).

I'm not a fan of Trap Sense (because why?), I'm not a fan of medium armor proficiency (design a light hide armor instead, k thnx bye), I'm not a HUGE fan of alignment restriction (though I'm not a fan of alignment restriction in general, so perhaps I'm biased).

Part of me really wants to see a barbarian maxed out on Ride, charging into fray on the back of a dire bear or something. Awesome.

 

[Seeten]

I don't really like the class. It's the temporary gain in hit points: I think I've seen more character deaths when rage ends than anything else. It's a theoretical gain that ends up being a survival liability: blech.

-blarg

I've lost 2 barbarians to this. Both times, I blame the cleric.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Likes
Lots of hit points. You get DR - it's not a huge amount, but it's neat and no one can cut through it.
Doing big arse damage. For some reason, I just really like rage.
The stat boosts. (I prefer it to some D20 Modern-based rage systems, which boost Strength and Dex and reduce saves. Huh?)
Bonus to Will saves when raging and Indomitable Will. I really like that.
Scaling rage. You have a good reason to keep taking class levels.
Skills. You get a decent number of skill points, and the skills that are available to you make sense.

Dislikes
The name. (Not a big deal, everyone knows the class should have been called berserker.)
Low AC. (It's part of the class)

Meh
Dying on your feet. If you gained 20 hit points during rage, that's 20 more hit points that you can use to run away. You don't have to fight to the death just because you're raging (although it could be an RP thing).
Illiteracy. Most people in the Middle Ages were illiterate. I think it's silly that most fighters and rogues, for instance, are literate, but it doesn't really hurt my suspension of disbelief.

 

[Sejs]

Likes: Barbarian women rarely wear much in the way of clothes, and tend to be rather well endowed.


Dislikes: Barbarian men rarely wear much in the way of clothes, and tend to be rather well endowed.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Barbarian:
1 : of or relating to a land, culture, or people alien and usually believed to be inferior to another land, culture, or people

To suggest that the Barbarian class was supposed to model the Norse or Native Americans or other "barbaric" cultures is LEAGUES more unpleasant to me than a generic "fantasy angry savage fighter archetype" class.

I'm not sure why you consider this concept "unpleasant."

The class clearly has its basis in how certain cultures viewed other cultures. The Rage ability comes directly from Norse, Pict, and Celtic battle tactics as viewed from the recieving end.

Most (not all) of the people to whom the name "barbarian" have been applied through history have been semi-nomadic, organized in a tribal fashion, somewhat xenophobic, but closer to nature than those who call them barbarians. Typically, they also have spiritual and cultural sophistications that may not be immediately apparent to their neighbors.

 

[FalcWP]

I think there are a few reasons to not like the name.

First, if barbarian applies to a foreign and inferior culture, why would any barbarian refer to themselves by that name?

Second, barbarian has a number of negative connotations that go beyond a strict dictionary definition. It tends to imply a stupid, bloodthirsty savage; while the barbarian certainly is a great building point for that sort of character, there are other types of characters that the barbarian represents that wouldn't likely be described as a barbarian.

Me, personally, I don't have as much of a probelm with that. My barbarian (class) character might refer to himself as a wildman/northman/whatever, by his tribe or clan, as a berserker or rager, as a gladiator or pit fighter... whatever *he* is. Out of all the PHB classes, barbarian is probably the one that a PC would least likely describe himself as. All things considered, the class would probably be better suited with a more generic name.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

First, if barbarian applies to a foreign and inferior culture, why would any barbarian refer to themselves by that name?

You answered the question yourself:

My barbarian (class) character might refer to himself as a wildman/northman/whatever, by his tribe or clan, as a berserker or rager, as a gladiator or pit fighter

In some cultures, they simply refer to themselves as "The People" or some equivalent, and may even regard other humans as being spirits adopting human form in order to deceive.

Second, barbarian has a number of negative connotations that go beyond a strict dictionary definition. It tends to imply a stupid, bloodthirsty savage; while the barbarian certainly is a great building point for that sort of character, there are other types of characters that the barbarian represents that wouldn't likely be described as a barbarian.

The norsemen who raided northern European coastal & river settlements were commonly called "barbarians" despite the fact that they were sophisticated craftsmen, traders, tactitians, navigators, and legal theorists (at least in the sense of women's rights).

The Moors commonly decried their European neigbors as barbarians...and vice versa. In China, anyone on the other side of the wall was a barbarian, and the Japanese considered no culture their equal. Most would agree with your enumeration of additional connotations...despite being incorrect in assessing other cultures.

Still, I think the term is still useful as a class since, in reality, there really isn't another word by which we can group those cultures like the Vandals, Saxons, Mongols, Zulus, Vikings, etc. in any meaningful sense.

 

[WayneLigon]

I played a Barbarian for the first time ever in our most recent 3.5 game. He started as a dwarf, then became a halfling due to a reincarnation spell.

I really can't say I find a drawback to the class. The Pros are the HP and rage abilities, of course, that let me a damage magnet and just run screaming into battle without a thought. Jumping atop Ice Worms and cleaving their skulls because I know I can survive the explosion is a great thing.

 

[FalcWP]

My point was that most of the class names are titles that members of those class may attribute to themselves. Yes, they might refer to themselves as something else (not every, or even the majority of fighters, might think of themselves as a "fighter"), but, for the most part, they wouldn't deny that title.

Barbarians are an exception, however. As you said, many people are called barbarian, but usually by their foes. In your examples, the Norsemen, Moors, Europeans, and others would not call *themselves* barbarians, even if they happened to use a fighting style that would be easiest to mimic in D&D with the barbarian class. Its one of the few classes where I don't really picture any barbarian claiming to be a barbarian, just because of the usual connotations behind the word.