Barbarian Substitution levels- Berzerker

[DragonTurtle]

The design of this is that someone who wants to play a raging warrior, without the stereotypical Barbarian flavor.



Berzerker class skills
as Barbarian, note that the Berzerker does not start out
illiterate.

Berzerker
1 Rage, Diehard when raging
3 Fearless
7 Crescending rage

Rage - as Barbarian ability
Diehard (Ex)- When raging the barbarian gains the advantage of the
diehard feat. This ability replaces the barbarian's fast movement
ability.

Fearless (Ex) when raging a berzerker is immune to fear, this
replaces the barbarian's trapsense which is never gained.

Crescending rage (Ex) While raging, the berzerker gets angrier the
more it is hit, when the berzerker drops below half his hitpoints
he does +1d6 damage on his next strike against a fow that does
damage to him. He must attack that foe within 1 round of being
damaged and if he misses the extra damage is lost. This increases
by +1d6 at every level the berzerker would have gained damage
reduction to a maximum of +5d6 at 19th level. This extra damage follows the same guidelines as sneak attack damage, meaning it doesn't work if the opponent is immune to criticals and it is not increased in the case of a critical hit. The Berzerker never
gains damage reduction.

 

[Brother Richard]

What!

This is worthless! I am sorry but first of all, there is no reason to have a berzerker in a game flavor wise, but it also is extremely overpowered. Instead of making the barbarian well rounded, you make them extremely powerful at one thing which unbalances the game and also fast movement and diehard are not equivalent in power. You ar just a midmaxer that wants a powerful substitution for barbarians!

 

[DragonTurtle]

Wow, making comments that attack and then making judgements about me and not what I wrote isn't quite the feedback I was looking for.

I do appreciate your comments that you think it is unbalanced, I was leaning towards that as well.

I will dispute Diehard vs. Fast movement. Diehard is worth one feat. Fast movement is double what any feat provides (which is on;y +5'). Plus the Boar Totem Variant in Unearthed Arcana has the same benefit in lieu of Fast movement.

Also I have seen quite a few posts saying that want a berzerker without being illiterate and barbaric.So your point is you see no reason to separate the two, point taken.

But I guess, at least I got a new term out of it, a midmaxer, is that better or worse than being a minmaxer?

 

[Thaniel]

fast movement and diehard are not equivalent in power

Let's see, to get fast movement, you just have to take two feats. Dash and Dash (if it allows being taken multiple times. I'm not sure if it does)

To get diehard, you have to take two feats, Endurance and Diehard.

Seems even to me.

 

[DragonTurtle]

Worth noting, that unlike someone who takes the Diehard feat, the character is only under the effects while raging. Which is one encounter a day at early levels.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Let's see, to get fast movement, you just have to take two feats. Dash and Dash (if it allows being taken multiple times. I'm not sure if it does)

To get diehard, you have to take two feats, Endurance and Diehard.

This is true, but it's not enough. First, Fast Movement gives all the benefits of Dash + Dash, while the proposed ability gives only part of the benefit of Endurance + Diehard (no Endurance benefit, Diehard benefit only when raging). Second, Endurance is considered a weak feat. Third, Diehard is considered a weak feat.

Overall, I see many benefits to increased tactical movement with Fast Movement, as well as some possible benefits with overland movement. The Diehard ability is probably weaker; both abilities might grant an extra attack in a fight (Fast Movement more often, but Diehard could also grant a full attack), but Diehard makes the barbarian much more vulnerable. If you keep fighting at -5, you're near-certain to be killed, while you would otherwise survive the fight most of the time.

 

[Nyaricus]

This is worthless!

So is your post, if you're just going to threadcrap :\

I am sorry but first of all, there is no reason to have a berzerker in a game flavor wise, but it also is extremely overpowered.

Say what? The barbarian class is based off of two things: Nordic people and Nordic Berserkers. I could go into great detail right now, but I have to sleep sometime. Point being, your point is valid that this class varient is overpowered and there's no need to apollogise for that. "Flavour wise" D&D is a big old hodgepodge of stuff, with the Barbarian Class (that's the base class, page 24 of the Players Handbook) IS a berserker, so I have no idea what you talking about. Maybe you owe someone an apollogy?

Instead of making the barbarian well rounded, you make them extremely powerful at one thing which unbalances the game

So what? The bard is a mook of all trades, why not have a specific, niche base class. Like a Paladin, or a Dragon Shaman? Or one of the hundred of thousands of other classes.

[rant]
Every time I see a post on HOUSE RULES saying "there's no need for X, because blah" I cringe, and a post baby dies. People, lets be straight here. New creation are the purpose of this forum. It wouldn't be here otherwise. Frankly, it's pretty popular all-in-all, with my experience on the boards the last 10 months that we've had an average of 7 pages of threads from a month ago on average. Thats a lot of work there. There's no need to be cruel because YOUR perception of the game and what it should be is different. Base your criticisms on the work itself, and not it's niche. I am even guilty of not going into threads that don't really interest me, even though I might be able to help. More people should just *randomly* browse HRs and just check out the need crunk people make in here - there are tons of great examples I can't even get into. Anyways, just base your critiques on a persons' works' merit - not the person.
[/rant]

also fast movement and diehard are not equivalent in power.

Already proven that they are, in regards to feats. Frankly, FM is better, so I don't get what your bellyaching is about.

You ar just a midmaxer that wants a powerful substitution for barbarians!

You are just a poster who is borderline trolling and asking for a report!

Some people "get" balance, or need a lot of help form the community to reach that point with their projects, so don't don't base a persons min-maxing tendancies on their posts.

 

[Geoff Watson]

Overpowered IMO.

Diehard is weak compared with increased movement, but the other abilities are much better than what they replace.
Trap sense is worthless; fear immunity is very useful (until it becomes redundant at high levels due to Heroes Feast).
DR isn't enough to make much of a difference at mid/high levels, but extra damage is quite useful. Did you mean to require a flanked or Dex-less opponent? If so, that might weaken it sufficiently.

Geoff.

 

[Sigurd]

The problem comparing Diehard to Extra movement is that not everyone is careful about movement and distance in combat. Unless you use the grid and track things you never see how valuable the extra movement is. Many players see little value from the feat because of this.

Diehard is more universally implemented.

For the record I'm not averse to the substitution level but I (personally) think it doesn't solve the core problem. Barbarian or Berserk should be a prestige class on top of fighter.

To be fair to Brother Richard substitution levels and small fixes without 'big picture' background are easily abused as power ups without much Role to them. I don't find this particularly the case here but I'd love to hear more 'fluff' and game elements that tie into this idea. IMC the more comprehensive or thematic the more likely it is to find a niche.

I'm not sure I think of Berserks as less fragile than barbarians, honestly. Dieing gloriously in extasy blood and carnage seems more likely for Berserks. I wouldn't associate them with a more safe rage.

I'd look to a divine protection or cleric spell. Something like:

Odin's Hand:
Cleric 2

The choosers of the slain spare their greatest servants for another day. Berserks under this enchantment will automatically stabilize if brought to negative hit points. If the target would otherwise die at the end of his\her rage he instead falls to the ground, eyes wide open, in a position of supplication. Instead of being collected for Valhalla the target is marked by the Valkiri kiss and left in a coma for caster level turns. In that time he may be brought back to 0 by magic.

Targets killed outright are not helped by this spell - their time has come.

This spell may be affixed to a fetish or magic item but the item will only have one 'charge' and may not be bought or sold. It must be earned in the service of the God. A player may never have more than one such fetish in his possession. Acts of dishonour and weakness will spoil such an item.


Sigurd

 

[DragonTurtle]

Just to address the balance issue on the Crescending Rage, there are a couple of variables that need to be in effect for this to kick in:

1- The Berzerker needs to be raging. This limits the number of rounds that this ability can be used.

2- The berzerker needs to below half hitpoints, so this creates an interesting scenario does the berzerker attempt to get healing or does he continue to act at low hitpoints to get the bonus damage. However since this kicks in towards mid fight, and the rage should also be winding down there are not that many rounds that the berzerker gets this.

3- It applies to only one attack against someone that his hit the berzerker and if that attack misses, or isn't used that round it is gone.

4- It starts out at +3 to damage average and caps out at +15, it is a nice bonus but at those levels and it only being at most 1 hit a round it may not be as game breaking as it sounds.

So compared to Damage Reduction it is good, however it is not an always on effect, crunch wise the berzerker is less effective outside of a rage than the barbarian, no trap sense, no damage reduction and no fast movement.

Honestly I would balance this more by getting rid of a couple skill points, however sub levels don't really allow for that. However there is no reason why that couldn't be house ruled.