Barbarians of The Dark Forests

[Tonguez]

In developing various barbarian tribes, do you advance them through the years as far as culture, magic, and technology goes? How do you develop barbarian tribes? Do you provide them with goals and dreams as they spread their culture out? Or perhaps they are on the defensive, and being crushed under the boot of more advanced, and more powerful kingdoms?

Barbarian cultures are really no different to a medieval culture except in terms of scale and 'standards of behaviour'. The main unit in Barbarian cultures is the 'village' (be it a nomad camp or a small walled 'city') usually made up of a few related families.
These villages might form alliances with other villages (usually by intermarriage or other family ties) and thus form tribes.

Villages have the same systems as any society - 'laws to maintain peace and prosperity - often tied to religious practice, a system of governance (Council of Elders, High Chief/King), and a system of obligations and rights (economics, marriage)

So for Barbarians just treat them like you would any other culture in a village in your campaign

Levels of Civilisation
1Primitive Savage - hunter-gatherers, small familiy mobs, no specialisation
2Advanced Savage - semi-nomadic hunters pre-agrarian (do some limited harvesting of crops), family and clan, Task specialisation
3Barbarian - Agrarian or Nomadic herders, clan and loose tribal confederations, Task specialisation, Trade by 'Gift exchange'
4Advanced Barbarian - Settled agrarian socieity tribal based including tribal 'Kingdoms',
5 Civilised - Settled Agrian, Non-Tribal 'states', trade economies
* Feudal
* Monarchal
* Democratic


Indo-European Celts, Germanics, Picts and Neanderthals

Celts are Germanic peoples are descended from the Indo-European invaders from the south. I've always been fascinated by those who proceeded them - Picts, Beaker folk, Beaver folk and even Neanderthals - Who were they, where did they originate, where did they go.

Swords vs Spears
mmasden I've often wondered why the Sword is so iconic (in all rl cultures) when as you said spears seem more effective. My guess is that their relative rarity and the 'skill' required to use them made them more precious than the common spear. Also swords are a weapon created specifically for combat - the others are modified tools (hunting spears etc).


Aurochs The last True Auroch (Bos Primogenis) died in 1629 in Poland although there is a report of a small remnant herd in the Black Forest being shot for meat by german soldier in about 1919. There are also (apparently) around 3000 domestic 'descendants' of Aurochs preserved as a protected species in Poland and surrounding countries (Latvia etc)

 

[GrimJesta]

Perhaps I am wrong but I think the line between a barbarous culture and a more civilized culture revolves around the concept of specialization.

Specialization depends upon social complexity, but that it not always relative to technology level. You can have socially complex barbarians, or you can have ones that aren't. Specialization is just delegation of task and heirarchy of management in most instances; "barbarians" otfen have both.

-=grim=-

 

[Yuan-Ti]

Swords vs Spears
mmasden I've often wondered why the Sword is so iconic (in all rl cultures) when as you said spears seem more effective. My guess is that their relative rarity and the 'skill' required to use them made them more precious than the common spear. Also swords are a weapon created specifically for combat - the others are modified tools (hunting spears etc).
[/B]

I think this has a lot to do with it. Also, of course, the skill required to make a sword made it more valuable, as did the fact that it was made almost entirely of metal.

Effectiveness of spears? Are spears more effective than swords in single combat? Certainly, spears, pikes and other incarnations of that weapon dominated combat for a long time when armies met, but I am not sure a soldier with a spear and shield fighting in single combat against a soldier with a sword and shield had any advantage -- he may have been at a disadvantage.

 

[Darraketh]

When in doubt...

Webster's Dictionary
Barbarian - A member of a people or culture thought of as being primitive, uncivilized, or savage.

With that in mind the “Klingons” could be considered barbarians due to their savagery in spite of their tech level.

On the other hand a peaceful culture could be considered barbaric due to their primitive way of life or lack of technology. Meanwhile a peace loving technologically advanced people could be considered barbaric simply because of bad manners.

 

[SHARK]

Greetings!

Hmmm...well, it would seem that in 197 BC, at the Battle of Cynoscephelae, the Roman Legions, armed with the Gladius, defeated the Macedonians and Greeks, armed with the Phalanx. The pikes used in the protective formation of the Phalanx were certainly brave men, and could be quite deadly if the enemy fought them on their own terms. However, the Romans showed conclusively that if you deploy sword-armed infantry aggressively, attacking with great vigour, and making full use of their inherently superior mobility, the akward, packed ranks of the spearmen or pikemen will be routed and destroyed. The Macedonian Phalanx troops had difficulty in manuevering, and once the Roman Legionnaires worked their way inside the turn radius of the pike, the Phalanx troops were doomed. Even with still shorter spears, it remains more difficult in combat to choke up on the spear accurately and swiftly enough to keep pace with the swordsman. It is because of these factors, that while the spear remains formidable, and an essential weapon in the arsenal of war, that our ancestors, of diverse nationalities, all seemed to arrive at the conclusion that the sword was the more valuable weapon.

I think that I have the right of it!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

 

[mmadsen]

I have read a few things that have suggested that in the times of the Roman Republic, there were some reliable discoveries of living Dinosaurs around Africa and the Mediterranean.

OK, how'd this sneak by with no comments from the peanut gallery? Living dinosaurs in Africa in ancient times?

I remember also reading that Aurochs survived until I think the Dark Ages in Europe. Aurochs are prehistoric plains Cattle that are huge, like the size of a Rhino, I believe.

Europe used to be covered in forests with plentiful bears, wolves, lions, giant elk, etc. I suspect our modern scared-of-humans wolves and bears are the product of "selection pressure" exerted by early men.

 

[SHARK]

Greetings!

Yes, well Mmadsen, did you also know that the Romans hunted some animals to extinction? There was also a rare purple plant that was used as a natural contraceptive--it too was so over-harvested by the demand for it in the Roman world that it, as a plant species, was harvested to extinction as well. I'm aware that the Romans hunted throughout the Mediterranean world with well-equipped hunting expeditions, designed to bring back as many bizarre and strange creatures as possible, for the great games in the arena's of the empire. After all, the Colliseum could fit at least 50,000 screaming fans. Yes, that's *at least* 50,000 screaming fans. And people envision it difficult to field 80,000 troops in an army?

At any rate, it is an intriguing idea. I have read so many books, I can't possibly remember all of the titles, or the authors. You see, when I was a boy, and a teenager, my parents encouraged me all the time to read, read, read. My father would drive me to various local libraries, and I would check out 4-8 large, scholarly books every two weeks, and read them all. I read every book that I could get my hands on in my school library, in two county libraries, and in the city library downtown, on ancient history, Rome, Medieval History, and World War II. I did this quite frequently, because I was born I suppose with a gift for reading swiftly, and with great comprehension. Throughout my school years, I was regularly reading four grade levels or higher than my current age/grade level. I read so quickly, and so thoroughly, that for example, in elementary school, they put me in a special reading class where I could read books that high school and college were reading. I read so many books, that I can't remember them all, there were so many.

All of that has paid off, now that I am in college, because I can comprehend just about anything they have easily, and I can read it swiftly, which makes assignments easier, to say the least. I now have a large personal library, that grows on a regular basis. I joked with my wife that I should like to some day own my own store--In it I would have the following:

(1) A coffee house: Here would be served fine coffees and soda drinks, tea, and so on. Light snacks would also be available.

(2) A Tobacco Shop: Within a large pair of glass doors, there would be couches, finely carved tables, art-work, and fine pipe-tobacco, and excellent cigars. There would also be a lounge area here, and large tables and booths to read at while one enjoyed a good cigar and a fine coffee.

(3) A large, multi-level, finely furnished bookstore. Here, besides couches and lots of tables, would be rows and rows of bookshelves.

I would have specially secured viewing rooms for rare documents, and special edition books, all held in tempurature-controlled rooms. Here would also be a viewing room with one level, where people could plug into ear jacks to hear famous speeches and so on, or watch special videos. On another level, there would be a daily movie/documentary room, where a special documentary or significant historical movie would be showed several times throughout the day. It is also in some fine presentation rooms that I would have guest authors and speakers attend for book signings and special guest lectures.

Eh, it is nice to dream I suppose!

In several books I have read about some obscure kind of dinosaurs were encountered by explorers from Rome and Greece in different parts of Africa. It is facinating to think of. I know the canon says one thing, but you know what? Sometimes canon has to be revised. Authorities didn't think Troy existed either, but it did. Same goes for the Hittite Empire. They all thought it was just some outlandish tale from the Bible until oops...um...gosh, what do we have here?--they found an entire Hittite city in the 19th century. Same thing with the dinosaurs, or various prehistoric mammals. I certainly think it is unlikely, but who knows? Certainly, the farther back in time that you go, because humans weren't quite as spread out, or quite as efficient in finding and hunting *everything* I think the possibilities increase fairly significantly for the odd prehistoric survivor or group to be found. Imagine that!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

 

[sword-dancer]

mmadsen

As an aside, why is a sword such a treasured weapon when it doesn't seem as effective as a spear in most cases? (Don't get me wrong, I love swords, but spears seem superior for most uses.)

Spears are easier and cheaper to produce(needing much less metal).
Sords you could carry more easily and concenient, are very expensive and als a status symbol.
Kewlness fastor, and you could use the sword as backup.

Tonguez

Barbarian cultures are really no different to a medieval culture except in terms of scale and 'standards of behaviour'. The main unit in Barbarian cultures is the 'village' (be it a nomad camp or a small walled 'city') usually made up of a few related families.
These villages might form alliances with other villages (usually by intermarriage or other family ties) and thus form tribes.

You are wrong AFAIK, the main unit is family, sippe(don`t konw the translation) tribe.
And celts are not germans, they are another people of the indo europeans, like the aryans or the kimmereier.

 

[mmadsen]

...the main unit is family, sippe (don't know the translation) tribe.

Sippe sometimes translates as "tribe", but it also translates as "kin" or "clan". I think "clan" is the term you're looking for.

 

[Tonguez]

You are wrong AFAIK, the main unit is family, sippe(don`t konw the translation) tribe.
And celts are not germans, they are another people of the indo europeans, like the aryans or the kimmereier.

Again another difficulty in trnaslation in my native langauge the word for clan and the word for village is the same. Afterall in Tribal societies (such as my own) EVERYONE in your village is a member of the clan by birth or marriage (slaves don't count - although their children do).

Also I say Clan/Village is more important than family from a Sociopolitical and economic perspective ie it was groups of families (clans) that controlled territories and distributed resources amongst its families.


Celts AND Germanic peoples

Also I looked backed at my post and it should of said Celts and Germanic peoples are Indo European (sorry) - and btw who are the Kimmereier? (I never heard of them before)