Barbed metal arrows

[Oofta]

While it feels reasonable, I'd be a little hesitant as well for the same reasons others have pointed out.

I'd allow this on a trial basis, try it for a game or two and see how well it works. If it doesn't work, the supplier goes out of business.

But, I question the basic hypothesis that a bard needs to do more damage. I know everyone has different preferences, but a bard is kind of supposed to be a support character. If they want to do more damage there are various options to achieve it.

In a previous campaign the bard multi-classed into warlock for the sole reason to get eldritch blast but I don't recall him ever using it more than a handful of times, especially after the first few levels. There were simply always better things for him to do that helped others damage the enemy or nerf them somehow.

So either give the bard another level or two and see if that helps or do a play test.

 

[Mort]

While it feels reasonable, I'd be a little hesitant as well for the same reasons others have pointed out.

I'd allow this on a trial basis, try it for a game or two and see how well it works. If it doesn't work, the supplier goes out of business.

Letting it in on a trial basis is always wise for any unproven mechanic.

But, I question the basic hypothesis that a bard needs to do more damage. I know everyone has different preferences, but a bard is kind of supposed to be a support character. If they want to do more damage there are various options to achieve it.

That's actually one reason I think I would be fine with the arrow/heat metal combination if the players really wanted it. It's not like the Bard doesn't have more powerful options just from the RAW. Heck Shatter, while it allows a save, will work every time, hits more people and if the save is failed does more damage (granted, no disadvantage on attack rolls but the bard is then free to cast Bane for nearly the same effect - again on more enemies).

 

[Blue]

so the arrow hits and deals damage... as far as having to deal 7 or more points, I don't know how likely it is in your game, but in my game world most archers have a 15+ dex so at least a +2 most times +3 or more... you roll 1d8 and ad 2 and that just worse then 50/50, make it +3 and it is 50/50, give him sharp shooter it is 100%...

I agree with you, which is why I didn't write it that way. It's that the weapon damage dice are 7 or higher. The weapon damage die for a longbow is d8. So it's 1/4 of the time on a normal hit, and a bit over half the time on a crit.

Any boosts like sneak attack, sharpshooter, or DEX are not part of the weapon damage dice.

But if you don't like the rule, offer an alternative. I don't care about what rule is used.

Assume that the DM doesn't want to slap down players for being creative. If the characters can find the right craftsman to make barbed metal arrows - what's a reasonable set of rules for if they stick?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Assume that the DM doesn't want to slap down players for being creative. If the characters can find the right craftsman to make barbed metal arrows - what's a reasonable set of rules for if they stick?

I would totally just go with 'you can have metal arrows for twice the phb price, but they only stick in on a crit, or when I tell you in my description'

edit: by the way as a player I would HATE playing at a table with a 'weird die roll house rule' that says the damage of the arrow being d8 matters but precise placing the arrow with sharp shooter, or sneak attack don't matter when the question is how well the arrow hits... I mean the whole point of SS and SA is you put the arrow in better... it never crossed my mind you would not modifiy the roll by anything.

 

[Blue]

But, I question the basic hypothesis that a bard needs to do more damage. I know everyone has different preferences, but a bard is kind of supposed to be a support character. If they want to do more damage there are various options to achieve it.

Reasonable player creativity should not be overwritten by choice of class. Just like it would be incorrect that a bard couldn't use a shove attack to push someone over a cliff because bards are support characters and shouldn't do lots of damage. In this case they are just trying to make their own luck instead of relying on a well placed hazard.

So, assume that the DM does not want to slap down player creativity - though that doesn't mean it's easy or without a cost - be it in combat, getting the arrows, or something else.

Now, we have characters armed with barbed metal arrows. What rules would you use for them with the specific player question of "do they stick in"?

 

[Blue]

It seems a bit open to abuse for the cost of gp and half the range. It seems gold is little used in 5e and all the PCs have plenty to spend in these at 10gp per arrow. An arrows range is incredible and nearly all fighting is less than 60ft so even making them 1/4 range is more than enough for most fights.

I can see adding more creep to attach ropes to them like a harpoon and be able to pull the arrow out for the +1d8 damage, or make them 'war' arrows for 1d10 base damage. As a DM, I would need to think more about it.

Maybe then reducing the base damage becuase they don't fly as well? Always giving disadvantage on the attack roll?

Again, the idea is to encourage creativity - these should be a cost for the creativity. Everyone is only talking about the sample rule I put forth - please feel free up come up with your own that's the appropriate level of opportunity cost.

 

[Blue]

I would totally just go with 'you can have metal arrows for twice the phb price, but they only stick in on a crit, or when I tell you in my description'

edit: by the way as a player I would HATE playing at a table with a 'weird die roll house rule' that says the damage of the arrow being d8 matters but precise placing the arrow with sharp shooter, or sneak attack don't matter when the question is how well the arrow hits... I mean the whole point of SS and SA is you put the arrow in better... it never crossed my mind you would not modifiy the roll by anything.

Fair enough. Okay, good - you're the first to suggest an alternate rule. I thought about on a crit, but the concern was that you are causing another character to do a certain action type, and it still is not likely to come up in any specific combat. But that's okay - if that's how common you feel it should be, that's a good rule.

Arrows x2 cost, only stick on a crit.
(Are you okay with the pull off rules I had up there?)

 

[Oofta]

Reasonable player creativity should not be overwritten by choice of class. Just like it would be incorrect that a bard couldn't use a shove attack to push someone over a cliff because bards are support characters and shouldn't do lots of damage. In this case they are just trying to make their own luck instead of relying on a well placed hazard.

So, assume that the DM does not want to slap down player creativity - though that doesn't mean it's easy or without a cost - be it in combat, getting the arrows, or something else.

Now, we have characters armed with barbed metal arrows. What rules would you use for them with the specific player question of "do they stick in"?

There's a line between creativity and coming up with house rules. I do have some house rules as suggested by players (off the top of my head we allow summoned steeds and familiars to gain beast levels), so that wasn't the issue I have. I was just suggesting that there are more ways to help defeat the enemy than damage ... and at least in the case of our group we found that damage wasn't usually the best use for spell slots.

It also depends on how receptive your DM is to this. I have no clue what your DM is like. If a player in my campaign were to suggest something like this we'd discuss it.

But you're right, I didn't think about the actual mechanics much. So looking back, I'd simplify.

The arrow costs twice the amount of a normal arrow, does one damage die smaller base damage, half range, and if you hit by 5 or more the arrow sticks.

if an arrow sticks, anyone can use a melee attack (against target's AC) to rip the arrow out with a free hand causing arrow damage + strength or dexterity mod if desired to reflect twisting the arrow to cause damage. If you are careful to not twist the arrow on the way out, it takes a standard action but damage is only the base arrow damage. Magical healing will also "push" the arrow out.

In addition, heat metal can be cast on the arrowhead doing damage as normal but not disadvantage for the target. The target creature gets a constitution save at the end of their turn to end the damage as the wound is cauterized.

Still not sure, but my point about the play test is that if I try something like this I want to be open that it may be tweaked in future games.

 

[Satyrn]

I'd suggest a steel-braided lasso.

Or there might be a mancatcher in a supplement somewhere.

 

[Mort]

Fair enough. Okay, good - you're the first to suggest an alternate rule. I thought about on a crit, but the concern was that you are causing another character to do a certain action type, and it still is not likely to come up in any specific combat. But that's okay - if that's how common you feel it should be, that's a good rule.

Arrows x2 cost, only stick on a crit.
(Are you okay with the pull off rules I had up there?)

If the stick is only on a crit, what's the point? That's only a 5% chance (10% with a champion fighter) at any given time - far too low for any kind of combo.

Maybe then reducing the base damage becuase they don't fly as well? Always giving disadvantage on the attack roll?

Again, the idea is to encourage creativity - these should be a cost for the creativity. Everyone is only talking about the sample rule I put forth - please feel free up come up with your own that's the appropriate level of opportunity cost.

Reduced base damage maybe, but these arrows already cost more. Disadvantage on the attack? That's just harsh, it penalizes creativity - not rewards it.

The cost to the creativity is that it's use very situational AND they have a limited supply of these arrows - nothing wrong with having an occasional item that might be more powerful than the norm. Especially on an expendable item like ammunition.

I liked your original mechanic just fine - stick on a 7+, easy to adjudicate comes up often enough to be useful.