No.
D&D 5E Bards have an identity problem!
I agree. This is the first time that I have felt D&D had a class the comes closest to representing certain versions of Merlin and some other pre-D&D influenced spellcasters.
Although unofficial, @Minigiant created subclasses for the Rogue and Fighter.
Cap'n Kobold
Hero
Shouldn't Expertise also be listed as having something to do with music? You can take it in Performance.
Weiley31
Legend
Perhaps it isn't the "Bard is stuffed in a Wizard shaped square," perhaps, the arcanic art of the Bard is what happens when the art of Onomancey/True Naming magic was lost in the annuals of time. It then descended down into a less/more watered down format which ended up becoming the basis of the words/music that powers the Bard's magic.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
Does Expertise list music specifically like the Bard abilities do?
Bards have the identity I give them. Flexibility to match the concept I want is nice.
The PHB states bards manipulate the echoes of creation. Seems pretty legit for powerful magic to me. ;-)
I think bardic inspiration, song of rest, and jack-of-all-trades give more identity to bards over wizards than wild shape gives druids identity over wizards.
Bards do not need music for most of their abilities. Music is thematic but an instrument is possible for a focus, not a requirement, and most abilities use music or words. I can walk into a dungeon without an instrument and use any ability on the list.
5e is not the first edition bards cast spells the same level as other casters. The revised bard in 1e (dragon magazine) cast 8th-level spells, which was higher than clerics and druids. In 2e all bards cast 6th-level spells while clerics and druids were limited to 5th, 6th, or 7th-level spells based on wisdom score.
In 3e clerics and druids were given 9th-level spell progression while bards were not; at least not in the base list. Bards were given higher level spells changed to different spell levels to make sure bards could still access those, and gained access to 9th-level spell slots in their PrC's. Sublime chord was pretty popular.
As much as some people ignore it, 4e had bards as full spell casters too.
People cling to a base chart in a single edition where clerics and druids were bumped up earlier, and miss the bigger picture. Bards were always close to other major spell casters. Far closer than they were to rangers and paladins.
5e just streamlined it better and still managed to keep them behind.
As for spell selection:. Focus on druid spells if you liked 1e bards. Focus on wizard spells if you liked 2e bards. Focus on cleric spells if you liked bards as alternative leaders to clerics in 4e. Mix and match to concept if you have a different concept mind. If you don't think your bard should be a full spell caster MC it with something suitable -- done deal.
The bard is very flexible in design. Make it how you think it should be and don't worry about changing it for everyone else. Add your own flavor. It's not that challenging. ;-)
That stems from historical roles where bards held military rank and were expected to act as scouts and soldiers if needed.
Historical versions were expected to be capable of many roles. It's not any edition of DnD that created the jack-of-all-trades concept. Bards were very Renaissance before the Renaissance ever existed.
5e also combines history with mythology. Bards were powerful spell casters in mythology.
It wasn't just the XP table. The XP bonus awards favored bards greatly giving them more bonuses than other classes too.
As mentioned, caster level mechanics favored the bard because of the higher level.
Those are sooooo not a bard, lol. A bard was a bard. They originally shared the shamanistic roots with druids before a separation of duties. The Fili (which was a higher rank of bard in the Celtic heirarchy) is the main influence on bards in DnD.
Bards were teachers, advisors, healers, eulogists (which included prophecy at the time), historians, genealogists, messengers, magicians, and more. They went to colleges for 20 years commiting history to memory in the form of verse as a mnemonic trick to help aid memory, and when they told a story it was in parable with a purpose. Think Aesop's fables but specific in advising on a current situation.
In mythology, bards were powerful magicians who did battles of magic on par with druids. That's the basis for spell casters in DnD and why they were always close to other major spell casters (druids and clerics).
They did also entertain and inspire soldiers in battle.
Bards definitely got magic in mythology. Bards and druids were the same thing once upon a time and wizard was just a synonym. DnD separates them thematically but they still ended up with similar roles.
People stating wizards are what bards were are correct. Merlin was based on a bard. Amergin and Taliesin are examples of bards as powerful magicians.
Tolkien based Gandalf on a mythological bard, chose to call him a wizard, readers bought into it, and we're seeing the influence of that choice.
The PHB states bards manipulate the echoes of creation. Seems pretty legit for powerful magic to me. ;-)
I think bardic inspiration, song of rest, and jack-of-all-trades give more identity to bards over wizards than wild shape gives druids identity over wizards.
Bards do not need music for most of their abilities. Music is thematic but an instrument is possible for a focus, not a requirement, and most abilities use music or words. I can walk into a dungeon without an instrument and use any ability on the list.
5e is not the first edition bards cast spells the same level as other casters. The revised bard in 1e (dragon magazine) cast 8th-level spells, which was higher than clerics and druids. In 2e all bards cast 6th-level spells while clerics and druids were limited to 5th, 6th, or 7th-level spells based on wisdom score.
In 3e clerics and druids were given 9th-level spell progression while bards were not; at least not in the base list. Bards were given higher level spells changed to different spell levels to make sure bards could still access those, and gained access to 9th-level spell slots in their PrC's. Sublime chord was pretty popular.
As much as some people ignore it, 4e had bards as full spell casters too.
People cling to a base chart in a single edition where clerics and druids were bumped up earlier, and miss the bigger picture. Bards were always close to other major spell casters. Far closer than they were to rangers and paladins.
5e just streamlined it better and still managed to keep them behind.
As for spell selection:. Focus on druid spells if you liked 1e bards. Focus on wizard spells if you liked 2e bards. Focus on cleric spells if you liked bards as alternative leaders to clerics in 4e. Mix and match to concept if you have a different concept mind. If you don't think your bard should be a full spell caster MC it with something suitable -- done deal.
The bard is very flexible in design. Make it how you think it should be and don't worry about changing it for everyone else. Add your own flavor. It's not that challenging. ;-)
That stems from historical roles where bards held military rank and were expected to act as scouts and soldiers if needed.
Historical versions were expected to be capable of many roles. It's not any edition of DnD that created the jack-of-all-trades concept. Bards were very Renaissance before the Renaissance ever existed.
5e also combines history with mythology. Bards were powerful spell casters in mythology.
It wasn't just the XP table. The XP bonus awards favored bards greatly giving them more bonuses than other classes too.
As mentioned, caster level mechanics favored the bard because of the higher level.
Those are sooooo not a bard, lol. A bard was a bard. They originally shared the shamanistic roots with druids before a separation of duties. The Fili (which was a higher rank of bard in the Celtic heirarchy) is the main influence on bards in DnD.
Bards were teachers, advisors, healers, eulogists (which included prophecy at the time), historians, genealogists, messengers, magicians, and more. They went to colleges for 20 years commiting history to memory in the form of verse as a mnemonic trick to help aid memory, and when they told a story it was in parable with a purpose. Think Aesop's fables but specific in advising on a current situation.
In mythology, bards were powerful magicians who did battles of magic on par with druids. That's the basis for spell casters in DnD and why they were always close to other major spell casters (druids and clerics).
They did also entertain and inspire soldiers in battle.
Bards definitely got magic in mythology. Bards and druids were the same thing once upon a time and wizard was just a synonym. DnD separates them thematically but they still ended up with similar roles.
People stating wizards are what bards were are correct. Merlin was based on a bard. Amergin and Taliesin are examples of bards as powerful magicians.
Tolkien based Gandalf on a mythological bard, chose to call him a wizard, readers bought into it, and we're seeing the influence of that choice.
Could you please cite your sources of mythology with epic magic battles of bards and druids?
Also i do not believe that d&d bard is based mainly on Celtic RL models.
Check out Jack Vances Dying Earth, one of the short stories features a bard.
The medieval minstrel also comes to my mind , not much Celtic about that one is it?
I believe you got profound knowledge on Celtic history, but your take on the d&d bard is to narrow imho.
edit: With your definition the swashbuckling troubadour wielding rapier and dagger would make no sense at all, leading to an identity problem indeed.
All your model does explain, is why a bard should have full access to spellcasting, all other aspects are not covered by the celtic bard.
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It feels like the OED should fix that if there's backing for it. Anyone have some favorite early quotes about "Bard" in general to go with that to start badgering the OED folks with?
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