Batman Begins: Ra's al Ghul (Major Spoilers)

[KaosDevice]

*bleh* Going with Mouse on this one, I was never a big fan of Robin and would just as soon never see him in this particular incarnation. The less we know of other DC heroes aside from Bats I think the better. He was always the classic solo act anyway.

 

[Henry]

Everyone keeps saying the movie had three villains. From my standpoint it really only had two. Falconi had so little plot development that I'd barely count him. He was really only a setup to introduce the Scarecrow, in my opinion.

As for Robin / No Robin, I'd have to agree partially with Mouseferatu. Batman has always to me worked better in the movies without Robin. There's nothing that a plucky kid sidekick would bring to the table in a darker-toned movie.

 

[DonTadow]

*bleh* Going with Mouse on this one, I was never a big fan of Robin and would just as soon never see him in this particular incarnation. The less we know of other DC heroes aside from Bats I think the better. He was always the classic solo act anyway.

ONe of the number one reasons IMO why superhero movies don't work is because they refuse to acknowledge the existance of other super heroes. If you ignore the world that the original material is adapted from then you're not being fare to the adapatation. A key reason why Spiderman was successful is because they made references throughout both movies to other superheroes which made the world more real.

 

[Insight]

I think Robin, or at least the idea of a Robin, is very much apart of the batman Myth. Robin represents the future. He represents Batman not only changing things for the better but teaching others how to change things for the better. A Tim Drake Robin would be a great idea for a future movie.. again done right. Tim's not some sidekick. He's a unique character in himself and one of my favorite young characters in the DC universe.

Again it's how they do it. Heck before this movie if you would have told me that they'd have three villians I would have grimaced as well. With such a great movie franchise in the works, they can't afford to pick and choose what part of the mythos they will take and won't take.

This is where I think they could take the concept of Robin and make it work with the darker story. Batman is going to need something to bring him back his humanity after fighting evil for a long time. I'm not a huge Batman fan, but I know that he has been portrayed in varying shades of light and dark over the recent years in his books. Perhaps Batman gets to the point where he is almost a criminal himself, and here comes Robin to remind him that he's human.

Robin doesn't have to be the 'plucky sidekick'. They can 'darken' Robin just as they did Batman for this series. Heck, call him Nightwing for all I care. There is a lot the writers can do with the kid and not make him lame or detract from the tone they have going.

 

[DonTadow]

This is where I think they could take the concept of Robin and make it work with the darker story. Batman is going to need something to bring him back his humanity after fighting evil for a long time. I'm not a huge Batman fan, but I know that he has been portrayed in varying shades of light and dark over the recent years in his books. Perhaps Batman gets to the point where he is almost a criminal himself, and here comes Robin to remind him that he's human.

Robin doesn't have to be the 'plucky sidekick'. They can 'darken' Robin just as they did Batman for this series. Heck, call him Nightwing for all I care. There is a lot the writers can do with the kid and not make him lame or detract from the tone they have going.

I agree. Tim Drake reads as dark (I"m not talking aTeen Titan's Tim Drake). I"m not saying that they should definiately do it just that it is very possible to that they could do a Robin and do justice to him as well. Can you imagine an R rated Batman and Robin movie?

 

[Mouseferatu]

This is where I think they could take the concept of Robin and make it work with the darker story. Batman is going to need something to bring him back his humanity after fighting evil for a long time.

I've heard this before, and I don't buy it. Batman only needs something to "bring him back his humanity" because a few writers decided that was the case, and all other writers since have felt roped into it.

There are a lot of dark characters out there who don't have kid sidekicks, and work just fine. And even if you want to argue that Batman needs people, he has people. Alfred. Jim Gordon. Rachel, if she lasts beyond this first movie. He has people with whom he interacts on a human level.

I'm sorry, but I don't care how much they try to darken the character, or how they try to work him in. I have problems with the very concept of Robin, and I simply don't believe any modern incarnation of Batman needs him in any way, shape, or form.

 

[Mouseferatu]

ONe of the number one reasons IMO why superhero movies don't work is because they refuse to acknowledge the existance of other super heroes. If you ignore the world that the original material is adapted from then you're not being fare to the adapatation. A key reason why Spiderman was successful is because they made references throughout both movies to other superheroes which made the world more real.

*blink*

I own both Spiderman movies, and I don't remember a single reference to any other superhero.

(I suppose you could be counting some of the costume ideas he goes through in the first movie, but I don't really see them as qualifying in that regard.)

Can you point 'em out?

Now, that said, this is something else we apparently disagree on. I actually prefer that most superhero movies keep the focus on the main character as more-or-less unique. I don't actually want most of them crossing over, and I feel they work better that way. This is particularly true of Batman, who is, when push comes to shove, a normal guy. I don't feel the existance of true superhumans would fit into the Batman universe as portrayed onscreen.

Hopefully, they'll change my mind if/when they do the Batman/Superman crossover. But right now, I must admit I'm opposed to the idea.

 

[KaosDevice]

Hopefully, they'll change my mind if/when they do the Batman/Superman crossover. But right now, I must admit I'm opposed to the idea.

Only if it is done DK/Miller style. I love seeing Batman beat the stuffing out of Supes.

 

[Kai Lord]

ONe of the number one reasons IMO why superhero movies don't work is because they refuse to acknowledge the existance of other super heroes. If you ignore the world that the original material is adapted from then you're not being fare to the adapatation. A key reason why Spiderman was successful is because they made references throughout both movies to other superheroes which made the world more real.

Are you talking about Aunt May's reference to Superman? If so then I'm afraid you missed a joke.

The only major superhero movies that "acknowledge the existense of other superheroes" that I can think of are the two Schumacher Batflicks. You may want to rethink your criteria for what makes a superhero movie work....

 

[fba827]

As long as we've got the spoiler thing going, anyone else think that kid Batman saved (the one Rachel was huddling over during the fear sequence, etc, and the one to which Batman gave that device earlier) is going to turn out to be Robin? After all, he did say he "couldn't find his mommy". What if mommy and daddy are dead, and Bruce Wayne takes the child in as his "ward"?

Do they list the kid in the credits -- does the boy's character have a name there? Anyone notice?