Bluff as a free action.

[rtricher]

I always thought that bluff as a standard action was kind of silly basically you are wasting a round in combat..

As a ranged thrown weapon think of the feint as a guy pumps a baseball in his glove before his guns the guy out at first that'd be enough to throw a guy off and doesn't take that much time..

As for Quickdraw, I'd let somebody quickdraw just about every weapon on them as a free action, I don't know many people who go around carrying a dozen weapons..

All of this IMO of course..

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Yes, but with the wizard casting an improved invis on the rogue and using a bow you can basically already do the same thing.

Absolutely. But that takes up a 4th-level spell. A rogue will have to either have a high UMD and pay for some form of Improved Invisibility (scroll, wand,) or beg one from the mage. So being able to do it without Improved Invisibility, and without the possibility of being negated by an area Dispel Magic, is a strong advantage.

And really, your point just emphasizes what I was saying. It's strong, but not quite overpowered.

Originally posted by rtricher

I always thought that bluff as a standard action was kind of silly basically you are wasting a round in combat..

This is not true. A 7th-level rogue with a short sword does 1d6+str per round. In two rounds that's (assuming hits) 2d6+(2x)str. But if he successfully bluffs (assuming a hit) he does 5d6+str. That's a fairly decent boost in damage.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Absolutely. But that takes up a 4th-level spell. A rogue will have to either have a high UMD and pay for some form of Improved Invisibility (scroll, wand,) or beg one from the mage. So being able to do it without Improved Invisibility, and without the possibility of being negated by an area Dispel Magic, is a strong advantage.

Not to mention, II is completely negated by Uncanny Dodge, 30' Blindsight, See Invisible...

Only way to beat a feint is a good Sense Motive skill.

And who maxes out Sense Motive?

-Hyp.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Not to mention, II is completely negated by Uncanny Dodge, 30' Blindsight, See Invisible...

Only way to beat a feint is a good Sense Motive skill.

And who maxes out Sense Motive?

True, still, I have no problem allowing the rogue to get all sneak attacks no matter how they get them. Although since I gather that anything published in Dragon doesn't have to go through nearly the amount of playtesting and balancing that the core/splatbooks have to go through, I am always wary of allowing them.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Actually, it's not even remotely close to the same thing.

See Invisibility, it doesn't work.
Invisibility Purge, it doesn't work
Uncanny Dodge, it doesn't work
Blindsight (feat (druid) or ability (Sacred Fist, creature), it doesn't work

In melee, blindfight prevents it from working.

WRT to the slightly different matter of flanking, flanking is much more easily mitigated. Characters may prevent flanking by moving, standing next to allies, etc. In most cases, that at least forces the rogue to move around for the flank--possibly provoking AoOs if he hasn't maxed out tumble and certainly limiting the rogue to one sneak attack (possibly two with a speed weapon).

For the bluffing rogue (assuming 16th level since it's a 10th level prestige class ability) the rogue is likely to have a minimum +21 bluff. Your standard fighter or monster opponent has +0 sense motive. He can roll a 20 and the rogue a 1 and the rogue still wins. A character like my Living Arcanis fighter/barbarian/cleric who maxed out Sense motive as a cross class skill? At level 16, he's only got a +9 sense motive and will usually lose.

In fact, before 3.5, Rogue and Bard were the only classes with Sense Motive as a class skill. In 3.5e, it's been added to the paladin skill list and, for all I know, it's added to the cleric list too (I'm not saying it is--everything I know about 3.5 I read online; it would just make sense). Still, the list of opponents vulnerable to bluffing is much much much longer than those vulnerable to improved Invisibility.

And WRT to the dagger or kukri being suboptimal for a rogue--not really. They're both optimal for gnome and halfling rogues. And for human and other medium rogues, they average only one point per round less than shortswords or rapiers and are easily concealable. For a character that gets most of his damage from sneak attacks, that one point is pretty much irrelevant.

Yes, but with the wizard casting an improved invis on the rogue and using a bow you can basically already do the same thing.

 

[LokiDR]

Is it even possible to Feint a ranged attack? Granted, there's nothing in the rules that says you can't, but I typically don't associated Feint maneuvers w/ ranged attacks, though I suppose it's more plausible for daggers than arrows/bolts.

I had a problem with this myself, when a player started doing it and killing everything. So I asked here. The response was, more or less, "Ever play dodgeball?". It works in the rules and it at least partially works in life.

 

[LokiDR]

Watch the fight on the car again. When he jumps up on the roof and starts throwing knives through the sunroof - he pulls one from his bandolier and throws it; pulls another and throws it; pulls another and throws it.

That's Quickdraw in action.

The example you are using follows the format I gave above - throw-draw-throw-draw-throw-draw as a Full Attack Action.

-Hyp.

There is a bandolier in the FRCS without any real rules. Is there errata I am missing on this, because some people imply it is a free action to draw from the bandolier.

The potion belt, FRCS, would let you do the same thing as quickdraw and daggers, except with no feat and alchemist fire.

 

[Hypersmurf]

There is a bandolier in the FRCS without any real rules. Is there errata I am missing on this, because some people imply it is a free action to draw from the bandolier.

I have no idea - I don't have FRCS.

But even having a bandolier that allows drawing as a free action shouldn't make your Quick-Draw-as-a-free-action a faster free action than a free action... y'know?

-Hyp.

 

[LokiDR]

I have no idea - I don't have FRCS.

But even having a bandolier that allows drawing as a free action shouldn't make your Quick-Draw-as-a-free-action a faster free action than a free action... y'know?

-Hyp.

But, there are actions like that, they are called "not an action".

I think it stays a free action if the badolier works like the potion belt, but it would save you from one more feat.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I think it stays a free action if the badolier works like the potion belt, but it would save you from one more feat.

I still don't understand how Elvinis could claim that the free-action draw-from-a-bandolier is somehow a different sort of free action to the free-action Quick-Draw.


-Hyp.