BoED -- Vow of Poverty

[cignus_pfaccari]

In our upcoming epic game, I'm playing an Unbodied Saintly Telepath with VoP. It's a bit simpler for him, since he can go almost anywhere by himself (Plane Shift/Greater Psionic Teleport), doesn't eat, doesn't really need to sleep, and doesn't require anything substantial to do his job. I figured I'd take VoP (we came up with a kind of crappy Epic VoP feat) just to make things easier.

He has a network, based out of his temple, that manages the disbursement of his donations, which will probably reach up to the millions of GP/session. It's effectively a non-profit organization, and he explicitly doesn't own it; it exists mostly because of him, though I'm sure some other VoP characters in the campaign would wind up using it, if they belonged to the same temple. However, he will police it for corruption, make sure the budgets balance, and suggest priorities ("I believe that the city of Bulg needs a brand-new sewer system. Please see to it.").

I envisage him spending the night in people's libraries (with their permission, of course), reading the night away, helping people wherever he happens to be, and occasionally, when so directed, serving as his deity's herald.

Brad

 

[RigaMortus]

I think an ascetic can use consumeables (potions, food, fuel for a fire) w/o breaking his Vow. He can't own any, but he can beg for them.

I also think intent has a lot to do with it. If your intent is to find a loophole and get the maximum use/benefit out of something, you are probably breaking the vow. If the player was willing to "give a little" (for roleplay reasons), I as the DM would "give a little". For example, if the current area was not safe enough to sleep in, I'd allow the ascetic to sleep in a Leomund's Tiny Hut provided he use the least amount of provisions necessary (sleep on the floor, not a bed... eat from trail rations, not a heroes feast... etc.). By the rules, VoP doesn't require him to do this, but I think it would be a good gesture on the player's part to show his intent isn't to take advantage of what Leomond's Tiny Hut provides.

Another example would be, if given the choice to stay in Leomond's Tiny Hut or a Magnificant Mansion, the ascetic would choose the Hut (again, only if the current environment was unsuitable for sleeping in). And yes, I am sure someone could come up with a reason why it would be prudent to stay in the Mansion over the Hut. And so long as the intent isn't to find a loophole, I'd probably allow it.

There are many examples and situations that one can conjure up to put VoP to the test. When it comes down to it, so long as the player isn't blatantly trying to find a loophole, and is willing to "give a little" (for role play sake)... I as a DM would be willing to "give a little" as well, when these situations arise.

 

[Scion]

wow.. no heros feast?

I guess that means no create food/water either..

nor a good berry..

or even if you get down to it no buff spells or healing magic..


I had one guy argue that nothing at all could be owned so long as it had value to someone out there.. so vop characters couldnt wear clothes, somewhere they had major value.. you couldnt cast spells which would give you the use of something like an item (not even the rainbow bridge)..

I countered with, 'well, I guess he cant breathe.. somewhere, someone is currently drowning and air is the most precious thing in the world to them.. guess he couldnt have any air in his lungs as that is a bit like owning it'

There are levels and levels to this ability, sounds like each and every dm will have to come up with their own miniruleset.. much like alignment and other various things..

Difficult to adjucate, impossible to have everyone keep the same list of exceptions..

Hopefully it will work out fine for whoever uses it though

 

[Pax]

In fact, Scion, since there wil always be a slave trade in any core D&D fantasy setting ("core" in this case meaning "Greyhawk" - think of hte A-series modules, people) ... the true Ascetic wouldn't even be able to keep their own BODY, by that fellow's (il)logic.

 

[RigaMortus]

wow.. no heros feast?

I guess that means no create food/water either..

nor a good berry..

or even if you get down to it no buff spells or healing magic..

OMG... I JUST said that there are always going to be situations one can come up with to test the VoP feat. This would be one of them...

Yes, I would allow a VoP character to eat from a Hero's Feast ***IF*** they weren't high enough yet (I think level 5) to have the ability that allows them not to eat... AND if not eating meant that the ascetic would die or otherwise have negative effects bestowed upon him AND there was nothing else to eat. If his buddy had trail rations, or there were edible berries in the area, the ascetic would have to eat them instead of Hero's Feast.

If he is going to eat from Hero's Feast for the main purpose to benefit from it's other effects, than that is a no-no to me.

It's all intent...

 

[Scion]

The intent of being immune to fear effects and healing a few points of damage?

Like I said, that is a strange line to draw.. 'you cant eat this because it might help you.. but sure, you can get bulls strength cast on you, that isnt the same!'

It is just a buff spell that requires you to eat something to get its effect. No difference between that and getting any other buff cast on you.

If someone is starving and they need to get the feast you can of course give up your spot, but if there is a spot for you anyway then I see no point in not allowing it.

 

[brehobit]

but what if you conjured an item up, like leomunds tiny hut or whateverit is called, could you use the hut? could you sleep there?

I'd say yes. Heck, I'd let such a character sleep in an inn or a castle as long as it wasn't his and someone else wasn't getting the shaft (not allowed to sleep in the inn) because of him).

what if you cast dancing sword and a magical sword made of energy were formed in the air in front of you wielded it from afar. Are you then breaking the VOP?

Again, it isn't something you can own. It is a spell effect.

what if you summon a mount and ride that mount?

Again fine for the same reason.

what if you cast create food and water and then ate the food and drank the water?

Perfectly fine.

what if you were made lord of the realm of Mithgaard by the King. As the land is still HIS could you take the title? What if in that title you were allotted a castle, could you use it?

You could take the title as long as you rejected anything that came with it. I think a VoP character would have to reject the use of the castle. He could use it if the King invited him in for a meeting, but couldn't own it in any sense of the word. And long term "borrow" is pretty much ownership. I could see the VoP character saying no, but suggesting that Joebob might be good for the job and then occasionally advising Joebob when he asked for help.

Could you take a job if you spent all your money on charity? Or doe sth boss have to give your money to charity?

You can take it, but you must give it away. A really good question is how long can you hold onto it? And my best answer is you can keep the $$$ (but not use it) as long as you have a plan for where you will be donating it and that donation isn't yet possible. (So keeping 1000GP to help orphens in the city you are going to help save is fine, even if it might take weeks to save the city (so that you can help anyone). Ideally, someone else would be intrusted with the $$$, but that isn't always possible.

What if simply picking up an item grants you magical abilities/immunites? Are you prevented from carrying the orb of fiery might back to the king?

This one is really hard. If there was a pressing reason why the character must carry the item and no one else could carry the item I might allow it, but probably not. If there was no chance of the item's ability having any effect (it grants a +10 bonus to ride and the character doesn't ride) I would probably tend to be more flexible.

 

[Rigaal]

Hi all,
Quick question. I'm looking at taking the vow of poverty for a sorc. that I play. He does have a few items at the moment (a minor healing device and a masterwork guitar) but losing them is no big deal.

What does consern me are:

• He has always riden a mule. Same mule since level one. I guess I could grab a level of druid to make him an animal companion but...
• He has often taken money to give to others. (He is a level 1 priest and takes donations for the poor fairly often.) Can he carry money that is meant for donation?
• He currently donates most of what he gets from adventuring to the poor (the rest he drinks/smokes, this will be a big life change) if the above answer is "no" (which seems to be the literal reading of the feat) how can he donate that which he has "earned".
• Finally, how the heck could such a character traverse the desert alone (something this character does do fairly often). Is he allowed to keep more than a day's supply of water on him? He can cast create water, so it isn't really the end of the world but it does seem wacky)

Thoughts? Have the authors addressed any of these general ideas?

Just got the book. Like it a lot so far!

No one has said the obvious (although I didn't read the last few entries yet). If you give the mule away and it chooses to follow you then VoP doesn't even come into play. Almost as if your good natured attitude towards the animal is well received and you are in turn given trust and companionship. It seems almost too perfect not to do it.

We've got a VoP Monk/Paladin (following Gestalt in UA) in our campaign that's been real interesting. The only issue we have found is that the rest of the group is very reclusive and paranoid of others and the Monk is often the wedge between them because of his extreme kindness. It's an interesting dilemma but I think it help will glue us together even more in time.