BoEMII has arrived!!!!
War Golem
First Post
Horacio said:
Hi Horacio
You posted exactly what I was thinking as I was reading through this thread. Monte has now redone 3 of the 11 PHB classes.... which begs the question:
Monte - which classes in the PHB do you feel "got it right"?
And another question, since we're on the subject: we all know that of the three core 3e books, the DMG was your baby... but how much involvement did you really have in the PHB, and obviously the classes in particular? Did your ideas for some of the classes (namely ranger, sorcerer, bard) just get voted down during game design, or are all of these variants the result of hindsight?
Thanks.
Pielorinho
Iron Fist of Pelor
I'm pretty convinced that the new sorcerer is in no way balanced against the old sorcerer. On the one hand, sorcerers have always looked like no fun to me to play -- their limited spell selection doesn't match my style of play.
On the other hand, in the games that I've run and the games that I've played in, sorcerer PCs have vastly outnumbered wizard PCs. So I'm not sure that they need this power boost.
I may go halfway between Monte's sorcerer and the PHB sorcerer: keep the extra skill points, keep the no-material-components rules, drop the increased hit die, keep the spell list.
I did notice that invisibility isn't on the sorcerer spell list (unless maybe it's bumped up in level -- that just occurred to me). I know the sorcerers in my game would hate that.
Daniel
On the other hand, in the games that I've run and the games that I've played in, sorcerer PCs have vastly outnumbered wizard PCs. So I'm not sure that they need this power boost.
I may go halfway between Monte's sorcerer and the PHB sorcerer: keep the extra skill points, keep the no-material-components rules, drop the increased hit die, keep the spell list.
I did notice that invisibility isn't on the sorcerer spell list (unless maybe it's bumped up in level -- that just occurred to me). I know the sorcerers in my game would hate that.
Daniel
In general, I like the revised sorceror. I particularly appreciate the improved skills, but the larger hit dice doesn't really matter to me. I also like the fact the you gain a few more known spells. The changed spell list hurts quite a bit, though. I know it doesn't affect every campaign equally but in my game, the following spells are very common with sorcerors:
Shield (now 2nd level)
Invisibility (now 3rd level)
Haste (now 4th level)
Polymorph Self/Other (now 5th level)
Shadow Conjuration (no longer available)
Shadow Evocation (no longer available)
Magic Weapon (no longer available)
Greater Magic Weapon (no longer available)
... and many more.
I really want to use the revised sorceror in my campaign, but I suppose I'll have to wait until the current sorceror PCs are retired -- the spell list change would be too much.
Shield (now 2nd level)
Invisibility (now 3rd level)
Haste (now 4th level)
Polymorph Self/Other (now 5th level)
Shadow Conjuration (no longer available)
Shadow Evocation (no longer available)
Magic Weapon (no longer available)
Greater Magic Weapon (no longer available)
... and many more.
I really want to use the revised sorceror in my campaign, but I suppose I'll have to wait until the current sorceror PCs are retired -- the spell list change would be too much.
Zarrock God of Evil
First Post
War Golem said:
The main reason why these classes weren't done like this in the first place seems to be:
1. They were anxious how the many changes would be received.
2. Space considerations. Spellsongs and revised sorcerer spell-lists would have taken up too much space...
I don't think Monte will be redoing more of the PHB classes....
-Zarrock
Last edited:
Sammael99
First Post
On alt classes and BOEM II
Well, with the release of BOEM II I decided to go for both and having read most of both last night, I must say that I much prefer BOEM II, even though there are some interesting elements in BOEM I.
I love the new Bard, although strangely, reading through the class one has the impression that the mard's music is his magic and that only. Still, that's up to the player to modify. I like the way spellsongs works.
I like the new sorcerer and the new spelllists simplify many things for me in "sorceror management". I think I will use Monte's sorceror from now on but I will ditch the familiar. Some seem to be concerned that there's a balance issue and that Monte's sorceror is too powerful. In that case, do just that : ditch the familiar...
The prestige classes are very nice, and probably some of the best non-core PrCs I've seen. They seem balanced and yet attractive.
The feats are OK although nothing blew my mind in there.
I haven't looked at the BOEM II spells yet, and neither have I read Soul Magic.
All in all though, for $7, this is the best value for money RPG supplement I bought in a long long time...
Well, with the release of BOEM II I decided to go for both and having read most of both last night, I must say that I much prefer BOEM II, even though there are some interesting elements in BOEM I.
I love the new Bard, although strangely, reading through the class one has the impression that the mard's music is his magic and that only. Still, that's up to the player to modify. I like the way spellsongs works.
I like the new sorcerer and the new spelllists simplify many things for me in "sorceror management". I think I will use Monte's sorceror from now on but I will ditch the familiar. Some seem to be concerned that there's a balance issue and that Monte's sorceror is too powerful. In that case, do just that : ditch the familiar...
The prestige classes are very nice, and probably some of the best non-core PrCs I've seen. They seem balanced and yet attractive.
The feats are OK although nothing blew my mind in there.
I haven't looked at the BOEM II spells yet, and neither have I read Soul Magic.
All in all though, for $7, this is the best value for money RPG supplement I bought in a long long time...
Psion
Adventurer
Re: On alt classes and BOEM II
Actually, I think soul magic was one of the stronger points of the book.
After thinking about it for a while, I am not so sure the sorcerer and the bard are good for me.
I have already stated why this is for the bard.
For the sorcerer, the problem is similar to that of the bard: Monte's version hems in the sorcerer concept too much. He made it into an "adventuring sorcerer." IMC, not all sorcerers are adventuring sorcerers. They are hedge mages and magic talents that often appear on the fringes of society. IMC, NPC sorcerers often have exactly the sorts of spells that Monte has extruded from the sorcerer list.
Additionally, while I agree that some of the spells he moved up in level perhaps deserve it (such as invisibility), so long as the wizard has them at a lower level, it is a major detriment. As it is now, sorcerers get a spell level one level later. Now they will get those particular spells 3 levels later.
The one thing I did like is the revised skill list.
That said, from a DM standpoint, I really like the Soul Magic. It really BEGS to be used in an adventure. An intelligent spell that forces you to cast it? That just seems like something very neat to include and has loads of plot possibilities.
I think the spells are pretty neat as well.
Sammael99 said:
Actually, I think soul magic was one of the stronger points of the book.
After thinking about it for a while, I am not so sure the sorcerer and the bard are good for me.
I have already stated why this is for the bard.
For the sorcerer, the problem is similar to that of the bard: Monte's version hems in the sorcerer concept too much. He made it into an "adventuring sorcerer." IMC, not all sorcerers are adventuring sorcerers. They are hedge mages and magic talents that often appear on the fringes of society. IMC, NPC sorcerers often have exactly the sorts of spells that Monte has extruded from the sorcerer list.
Additionally, while I agree that some of the spells he moved up in level perhaps deserve it (such as invisibility), so long as the wizard has them at a lower level, it is a major detriment. As it is now, sorcerers get a spell level one level later. Now they will get those particular spells 3 levels later.
The one thing I did like is the revised skill list.
That said, from a DM standpoint, I really like the Soul Magic. It really BEGS to be used in an adventure. An intelligent spell that forces you to cast it? That just seems like something very neat to include and has loads of plot possibilities.
I think the spells are pretty neat as well.
Zarrock God of Evil
First Post
Re: Re: On alt classes and BOEM II
Your description of NPC sorcerers brought one word to my mind almost instantly: Adepts.....
-Zarrock
Psion said:
Your description of NPC sorcerers brought one word to my mind almost instantly: Adepts.....
-Zarrock
Similar Threads
