Li Shenron
Legend
That's what you get when you ask for a "living edition".
D&D 5E Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade Nerfed in TCoE
Prebata
Explorer
The cantrips from SCAG are very powerful considering that they, at face value, can be used by any '1-attack' warrior to gain a respectable damage increase. And ontop of that the modifying factors mentioned above come into play. We all know that booming blade and green-flame blade are ported over from 4E's Swordmage. I think they were inserted into 5E as an addendum to the bladesinger, which is a little strange since the eldritch knight seems more like the swordmage of old, than the bladesinger does.
The new rule changes ties the cantrips even more to bladesingers, strengthening that design choice.
It is what it is, I suppose. Both cantrips still play a role for all 'weaker' melee characters (such as a cleric, wanting to have a decent melee attack) that looks to to add to their melee output through the Magic Initiate feat.
The new rule changes ties the cantrips even more to bladesingers, strengthening that design choice.
It is what it is, I suppose. Both cantrips still play a role for all 'weaker' melee characters (such as a cleric, wanting to have a decent melee attack) that looks to to add to their melee output through the Magic Initiate feat.
Sword of Spirit
Legend
Honestly, these cantrips are still good. The issues only come up when you are optimizing a build by selecting those combinations. Now there's nothing wrong with such a build, and this change will ruin it, but I think it's important to remember that this change will have absolutely no effect for most characters who use those cantrips.
Paul Farquhar
Legend
They do, so long as the target is within 5 feet (net).
Leatherhead
Possibly a Idiot.
Over all, it reminds me of the nerf to the Ammunition Property.
You know, the one that was targeted at people busting out gun-kata twin hand-crossbows, but made the classic sling + shield combat style unviable. The one I despise because the DPR of people using the xbow expert feat didn't change at all, it was merely an aesthetic change.
Anyway, lets see what changed:
Range: Self (5-foot radius)
This is what guts the interactions with all the stuff in the OP. It's especially annoying considering smite spells don't have the 5' restriction. At least they work with reach weapons. Heck, I'm still not sure if you can use GFB to burn a secondary target that's 10' (or more) away from you because they didn't bother cleaning up that language.
Now, what I haven't seen people talk much about are the other changes.
Components: V, M (a melee weapon worth at least 1 sp)
And
You brandish the weapon used in the spell’s casting and make a melee attack with it against one creature within 5 feet of you.
These changes do two things.
You can't use natural weapons with you blade spell (which is part of the ongoing problem with the name "weapon attack") and furthermore it also prevents using a focus to cast the spell so you can make a melee weapon attack with an improvised weapon. A method of attack that was admittedly sub-optimal and cumbersome in execution, but you cannot deny the appeal of using your flagon of ale to smack someone so hard that it lights them and their friend on fire.
In summary: These changes really don't do anything for the common person using the spell to magically stab people with their sword. It just messes up people having their goofy fun times with weird rules interactions.
You know, the one that was targeted at people busting out gun-kata twin hand-crossbows, but made the classic sling + shield combat style unviable. The one I despise because the DPR of people using the xbow expert feat didn't change at all, it was merely an aesthetic change.
Anyway, lets see what changed:
Range: Self (5-foot radius)
This is what guts the interactions with all the stuff in the OP. It's especially annoying considering smite spells don't have the 5' restriction. At least they work with reach weapons. Heck, I'm still not sure if you can use GFB to burn a secondary target that's 10' (or more) away from you because they didn't bother cleaning up that language.
Now, what I haven't seen people talk much about are the other changes.
Components: V, M (a melee weapon worth at least 1 sp)
And
You brandish the weapon used in the spell’s casting and make a melee attack with it against one creature within 5 feet of you.
These changes do two things.
You can't use natural weapons with you blade spell (which is part of the ongoing problem with the name "weapon attack") and furthermore it also prevents using a focus to cast the spell so you can make a melee weapon attack with an improvised weapon. A method of attack that was admittedly sub-optimal and cumbersome in execution, but you cannot deny the appeal of using your flagon of ale to smack someone so hard that it lights them and their friend on fire.
In summary: These changes really don't do anything for the common person using the spell to magically stab people with their sword. It just messes up people having their goofy fun times with weird rules interactions.
Leatherhead
Possibly a Idiot.
Nets are Ranged weapons.
Paul Farquhar
Legend
True. Not that you would want to do it anyway. But you could use it with a thrown dagger on a target within 5 feet. No reason to do so, but you could.
Anyway, IMO nothing is nerfed, these spells where simply being exploited in a way that the original designers (not WotC) did not anticipate, the wording change is simply to make the spells work the way they where intended to work. They are still among the most powerful cantrips.
Paul Farquhar
Legend
I'm pretty sure it wasn't changed because the intent is that the secondary target is 5' from the first target, and the distance from the caster is irrelevant.
Lucas Blackstone
Explorer
I think they should have let them work with War Caster still. But the other changes I can totally see them not having realized and not wanting them to work.
