D&D 5E Buffing the Champion Fighter

[Tony Vargas]

Yeah. All the other Extra Attack-like features at 3rd level are limited. Barbarian has frenzy or battlerager, ranger has horde slayer, war cleric has an x/day.

And any limitation makes it that much less simple...

... maybe it could be based on the weapon? A two-handed weapon gets an extra attack on a new opponent when you drop an enemy? A finesse weapon gets a reaction attack when an enemy misses you? A ranged weapon gets an extra attack when you don't move at all that round? I'm sure those'd have issues, but you might hammer out something....

 

[Hawk Diesel]

So initially, my proposal for improving the Champion was to add +2 to damage in addition to their expanded crit range. For me, this made sure that the Champion consistently felt the usefulness of their ability, since theoretically even with an expanded crit range you could end up never landing a crit. I also felt that Remarkable Athlete could stack with proficiency. But now, I have a different idea.

I'm considering at level 3 Improved Combat also allows the Champion fighter to use their bonus action for grapple, disarm, and shove attempts. This is similar to the Rogue's Cunning Action, giving the Champion fighter something to do with their bonus action if they don't use Two-Weapon Fighting.

Level 7 Remarkable Athlete stacks with proficiency.

Then At level 10, in addition to a second fighting style, a Champion adds half proficiency on any saving throws they aren't already proficient in.

Finally, at level 15, Superior Combat includes the following add-on: In addition, whenever you attempt an ability check using Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution, you can treat a d20 roll of 9 or lower as a 10.

I feel like these additions are not necessarily overpowering. It makes the Champion more strategic in greater options with their bonus actions (also synergizes with expanded crit), tougher (in their saves), more athletic (potential for 1.5 proficiency in Athletics/Acrobatics), and more successful in their athletics (by taking 10 with physical skills).

What are people's thoughts?

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Not a fan of the bonus action shoving etc, since it marginalises TWF even further and duplicates a significant benefit of the Shield Master feat.

 

[Yunru]

Improved Critical adds half your Int mod (minimum 1) to your crit range instead of just 1.

Superior Critical adds your Int mod (minimum 2) instead of just 2.



On another note, I like how you have the Daily (Eldritch Knight), Encounter (Battle Master) and At-Will (Champion) Fighter subclasses, and think as such the Champion should stick with always on and unlimited use abilities.

 

[Hawk Diesel]

Not a fan of the bonus action shoving etc, since it marginalises TWF even further and duplicates a significant benefit of the Shield Master feat.

I don't know about TWF (an additional attack is always useful when your main shtick is increased crit threat). But feats are optional as it is. We have already seen feats duplicated to some degree with new UA classes, which I think is appropriate. It allows multiple pathways for builds.

 

[Xeviat]

Bonus action trips and pushes compete with TWFing in the action economy.

More and more, I'm considering removing the bonus action cost from TWFing with the Fighting Style.

I, too, don't like the idea of the Champion taking something from a feat, especially a feat I could see them taking. But, the Swashbuckler takes something from Mobile, so it's not unheard of.


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[Hawk Diesel]

This probably a discussion for another thread, but I don't think the TWF attack needs to be separated from the bonus action. As it is written, I believe in order to use TWF, you have to use the attack action in order to use your bonus action for the attack. Why not allow the fighting style to separate the need to use the attack action first? This provides flexibility so that if you need your primary action for something else (quaffing a potion, dodge, disengage, ect) you can still get an attack in. I personally really enjoy the action economy, perhaps in part because it can be quite frustrating. It really forces me to think strategically.

As for the bonus action grapple, shove, and disarm, you can already make one attempt per attack when you use the attack action anyways.

 

[bid]

Why not allow the fighting style to separate the need to use the attack action first? This provides flexibility so that if you need your primary action for something else (quaffing a potion, dodge, disengage, ect) you can still get an attack in.

If you allow cast a spell, you're stepping on war magic's toes.

 

[Hawk Diesel]

If you allow cast a spell, you're stepping on war magic's toes.

The primary difference between War Magic and my suggestion is that War Magic works with one weapon in your hand, while TWF by it's very nature requires two weapons (obviously). So in order to cast a spell successfully and use TWF, a character would need to be a multiclass with a magic user and a class that provides the fighting style (Fighter 1 / Wizard X, though Ranger X would likely work too) AND they would need the Warcaster feat since most spells have a somatic component and having weapons in both hands would prohibit such spell use without. I don't see this stepping on the toes of War Magic without significant investment, in which case I am more likely to reward a character for investment than attempt to nerf them.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Improved Critical adds half your Int mod (minimum 1) to your crit range instead of just 1.

Superior Critical adds your Int mod (minimum 2) instead of just 2.



On another note, I like how you have the Daily (Eldritch Knight), Encounter (Battle Master) and At-Will (Champion) Fighter subclasses, and think as such the Champion should stick with always on and unlimited use abilities.

Why would you add your intelligence modifier to the crit range? That seems to place emphasis away from the fighter's primary attributes.

Or do you meant Initiative modifier to crit range? (which would be equally flawed as that would benefit dex based fighters unfairly, as well as anyone choosing the alert feat).