Can free actions be used as interrupts?

[Otterscrubber]

From my understanding a power like Forceful Push is like any other non- interrupt or non-reaction power in that it must be used on your turn. It is a free action, but all that means is it does not count as a minor, move or standard action. There is nothing about a free action power that states that they can be use on someone (or something) else's turn unless there is a trigger, but even then it is usually listed as an interrupt or reaction in the power description.

 

[Otterscrubber]

And once again i appear in a free action thread and demand a new wording:

free interrupt, free reaction



maybe a developer reads it and thinks, hey why not

Can you provide and example of a power that is an immediate interrupt or an immediate reaction that is not also a free action? I think changing the wording would simply add confusion.

Oh how I long for the days of the SRD when I could go look this up.......

 

[DracoSuave]

From my understanding a power like Forceful Push is like any other non- interrupt or non-reaction power in that it must be used on your turn. It is a free action, but all that means is it does not count as a minor, move or standard action. There is nothing about a free action power that states that they can be use on someone (or something) else's turn unless there is a trigger, but even then it is usually listed as an interrupt or reaction in the power description.

Free Action: Free actions take almost no time or effort. You can take as many free actions as you want during your or another combatant’s turn. The DM can restrict the number of free actions in a turn. Examples: speaking a few sentences, dropping a held item, letting go of a grabbed enemy.

Free Actions explicitly state, you can take them and as many of them as you want (within reason) whenever you want.

Forceful Push is a free action with no restriction stated. So you can take it during your or another combatant's turn. This includes in the middle of your own, or anyone else's, action.

 

[keterys]

Yep, free actions are one of the big "DM decides" things still left. Like, talking is a free action, but you can't recite War and Peace as one. Shifting grip on a versatile weapon to use it two-handed is a free action, but you likely aren't intended to make one hundred opportunity attacks while shifting grip on (for +1 damage) and off (for +2 AC, as a Swordmage) on a turn.

And it gets extra fishy for the new Grabby fighter, where someone could claim that they Slash and Pummel with a sword in one hand, empty handed in the other, meeting the requirement, swap to two-handed just for the initial attack's damage, then release it for the unarmed attack afterwards.

So, yeah, free actions can be used at any time. Except when they can't. Arbitrating how that works is largely up to the DM. Expect a lot of table variation, especially if you try to Force Push after being targeted and the attack die rolled

 

[Otterscrubber]

well that's that i get for giving an opinion without my books handy......

Still, dont think a free action should interrupt another action unless it has the interupt keyword assocaited with it.

 

[keterys]

Another one I've seen variance on:

You hit a creature for 10 damage and push 2. The creature has a 'when bloodied' power to 'Make a melee basic attack as a free action'. Some DMs will let it take that basic attack between the damage and the push, while it's still next to you, and others won't.

If it were a 'free reaction', then it'd be clear. I think I like the concept of free actions being only on your turn, and free reactions and interrupts being what you use on other people's turns. But, that's totally in the 5e department.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

well that's that i get for giving an opinion without my books handy......

Still, dont think a free action should interrupt another action unless it has the interupt keyword assocaited with it.

This has been an oft-made argument, and one that has some viability based only on the general text of the PHB, but the devs clearly seem to disagree since they've stated that a Warden can use his marking ability (a Free Action) even in the middle of other actions. Elven Accuracy also goes against that argument. The classic response was 'the trigger is implied', but with the Warden clarification (where there certainly is no implied trigger) pretty well kills off that line of argument.

So as I've said in an earlier post, we KNOW for a fact that a Free Action can happen at any time, even during another action. We also KNOW that at least one Free Action (Elven Accuracy, and I believe there are a few other examples as well, some of them being item powers) can modify an already made die roll in interrupt-like fashion.

The burden of proof is really on those who would claim that Free Actions DON'T work in the same fashion as interrupts at this point.

Keterys is right, DMs have the option to allow or disallow Free Actions, but I would argue that kind of freedom was never intended to give the DM the option to stop PCs from utilizing powers in situations where the rules indicate they can. It exists as a necessary measure that a DM can use to deal with players abusing these actions to gain benefits the rules don't intend them to have. A swordmage making many switches back and forth from 1 to 2 handed grip for instance is subverting the trade-off that the class design intends between doing more damage and having a higher defense. In the case the OP is talking about though if the power was intended to work as a Free Action and it is being used in the intended way then it shouldn't be up to the DM to say 'no' anymore than the DM should be telling a player he can't use any other power in a situation where the rules clearly say he can. At best the DM should have to articulate some reason for stopping a player from doing something he would normally be able to do.

If its an issue of rules interpretation then the DM should be explaining his interpretation before the fact, not invoking a safety clause to modify the way the game plays on the fly. There's no harm in people playing with different interpretations, they should just all try to agree beforehand and if a PC shows up at the table with a power like this hopefully the DM will be aware of any issues and bring it up then.

 

[bfiggins]

I don't care about invalidating attacks - here's my move-based scenario.

An enemy is coming towards me. After two squares, I interrupt his movement to slide him one square adjacent to my fighter buddy. Legal?

 

[Ryujin]

If you have a movement based interrupt, then I see no reason why you couldn't.

 

[bfiggins]

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I'm still talking about the free action of Forceful Push.