Can I use a ray to make a called shot?

[Aaron]

It has nothing to do with the spell having a save, and everything to do with the spell specifying objects as legitimate targets.

The rules that mvincent pulled explain the case.

What I'm asking is: what if a ray doesn't allow a save?

Does that mean it can never be cast on objects?

The "object" entry on Disintegrate is just a case of bad written spell, that doesn't mesh well with the general rules.

Just look at the Rust Ray spell in the Spell Compendium: it's a spell created to damage your opponent's equipment, nonetheless you can only use it against his armor or sword.

And what if a feat or class ability removes the save entry form the spell?

Can you still cast it on your opponent's equipment?

 

[Folly]

Its dependent on the wording of the spell. If the spell says it can be used on objects/equipment there is no reason it could be used against held objects/equipment. Normal ranged damage spells might get caught be the no ranged sunder rules. The save doesn't matter as much as the the target/spell description. If the spell says object are legitimate target then they are.

 

[Aaron]

Its dependent on the wording of the spell. If the spell says it can be used on objects/equipment there is no reason it could be used against held objects/equipment. Normal ranged damage spells might get caught be the no ranged sunder rules. The save doesn't matter as much as the the target/spell description. If the spell says object are legitimate target then they are.

By your reasoning you are extrapolating a general rule from nothing, aren't you?

Even a Scorching Ray could be cast on a door, and we don't need to know what would happen to the door, cause the rules say it.

In case of Disintegrate the spell's text tells us something more, cause Disintegrate acts differently from other spells when targeted on objects.

Without that bit of added text you would simply apply the damage to the door (or the wall), and stop.

With that text you know that you must erase cubes of stuff, without rolling any single die.

Using this specific rule to say that you can target your opponent's equipment with a ray, where other rays cannot, sounds like a big stretch to me.

 

[Folly]

I went back and looked at all of the rules that are involved. Sunder is given as the method of targeting equipment on a character in combat. Since rays are considered ranged weapons, the caster would have to have the ranged sunder feat to target attended items. If the caster did have the feat he could use any ray to try a sunder with.

 

[irdeggman]

I went back and looked at all of the rules that are involved. Sunder is given as the method of targeting equipment on a character in combat. Since rays are considered ranged weapons, the caster would have to have the ranged sunder feat to target attended items. If the caster did have the feat he could use any ray to try a sunder with.

Unless the spell description itself allows targeting such objects.

 

[Folly]

Unless the spell description itself allows targeting such objects.

I thought about that, but rays do not have targets. How you target them is a function of them being a ray. Rays are described as acting like ranged weapons. Object that are not attended you can hit with a ranged weapon, but attended objects have to be hit via the sunder rules. Spells that are not rays and have target of object can be directed at attend objects.

 

[irdeggman]

I thought about that, but rays do not have targets. How you target them is a function of them being a ray. Rays are described as acting like ranged weapons. Object that are not attended you can hit with a ranged weapon, but attended objects have to be hit via the sunder rules. Spells that are not rays and have target of object can be directed at attend objects.

Eldritch Blast functions like a ray (i.e., it is a ranged touch attack) - but it can target a held item.

I think that there is enough supporting text in teh description of the Disintegrate spell to likewise justify that it can be used on held objects. It specifically does not follow the sunder rules.

 

[Aaron]

Eldritch Blast functions like a ray (i.e., it is a ranged touch attack) - but it can target a held item.

I think that there is enough supporting text in teh description of the Disintegrate spell to likewise justify that it can be used on held objects. It specifically does not follow the sunder rules.

But you know that a ranged touch attack is not a ray.
I.E., for, example, you can't take Weapon Focus (Ranged Touch Attack).

Besides, what part of the Disintegrate text supports your view?
May I ask you to comment my PoV on the added effect of the Disintegrate spell?

What if a ray freezes and covers with ice targeted objects?
Would this special rule make it usable against opponent's equipment?

 

[irdeggman]

But you know that a ranged touch attack is not a ray.
I.E., for, example, you can't take Weapon Focus (Ranged Touch Attack).

An Eldritch Blast is specifically "a ray".

Complete Arcane pg 7:

“An eldritch blast is a ray with a range of 60 ft. It is a ranged touch attack that affects a single target, allowing no saving throw.. . . .An eldritch blast deals half damage to objects.”

A warlock can take Weapon Focus (ray) for his EB.

It is considered a weapon-like spell (CA pg 71)

A warlock can take Weapon Focus (Ranged Spells) (as can any spell caster and applying it to rays. (CA pg 73).

Precise Shot and Point Blank shot are also feats that can be applied to rays (and eldritch Blast).

 

[Aaron]

I see.

This shows that the FAQ on the EB is one of the many bad written FAQ, cause it doesn't mesh well with the other rules regarding rays, not to mention the FAQ itself that says that any spell aimed at your equipment is aimed at you.

At the end of the day it's up to you to allow this FAQ to change the way every ray affect your opponent's equipment, or to allow only the EB to do so.

IMHO aiming rays to your opponent's equipment opens a nasty can of worms, and creates a discrepancy with ranged weapon rules in general, and with the rules concerning sunder and so on.