D&D (2024) Can we have a discussion about the assumptions we make in terms of balance?

[Incenjucar]

Or we can just assume that "level" equates to power so that levels should be equal regardless of how powerful a given power source is.

If a level 12 fighter is the same effectiveness as a level 10 wizards, then the fighter should have reached that level at the same time the wizard reached level 10.

 

[tetrasodium]

Or we can just assume that "level" equates to power so that levels should be equal regardless of how powerful a given power source is.

If a level 12 fighter is the same effectiveness as a level 10 wizards, then the fighter should have reached that level at the same time the wizard reached level 10.

Effectiveness in wielding a 2 handed martial weapon? Effectiveness in their number of attacks each adding an attribute bonus to damage per action from an at will attack? Effectiveness in what?

 

[Incenjucar]

Effectiveness in wielding a 2 handed martial weapon? Effectiveness in their number of attacks each adding an attribute bonus to damage per action from an at will attack? Effectiveness in what?

Effectiveness at resolving challenges.

 

[tetrasodium]

Effectiveness at resolving challenges.

Which challenges? Are you really trying to suggest that a "level 12 fighter" has absolutely no strengths whatsoever over a "level 10 wizard" to such a degree that the fighter will be completely outclassed in any and all possible "challenges"? That has not been my experience whatsoever.

 

[Bedrockgames]

The worst assumption that people make is that every character class must be balanced against all other character classes.

This

 

[Incenjucar]

Which challenges? Are you really trying to suggest that a "level 12 fighter" has absolutely no strengths whatsoever over a "level 10 wizard" to such a degree that the fighter will be completely outclassed in any and all possible "challenges"? That has not been my experience whatsoever.

Please see every other thread on casters instead of pretending this is a surprising opinion.

 

[tetrasodium]

Please see every other thread on casters instead of pretending this is a surprising opinion.

So is that a yes? The only time I've seen such a thing is in the case of a self fulfilling prophecy where Bob decides that his PC can't do a particular thing and Bob ensures it never tries them.

Also those other threads seem largely focused on social stuff, why the focus on wizard rather than charisma based bard warlock or sorcerer classes with their access to nearly all of the wizard's spell list

 

[MuhVerisimilitude]

Also those other threads seem largely focused on social stuff, why the focus on wizard rather than charisma based bard warlock or sorcerer classes with their access to nearly all of the wizard's spell list

So let's ignore social stuff entirely and just toss that down the garbage chute it no longer belongs here gone forever.

Imagine trying to climb over an obstacle with athletics, or just use: Dimension Door, Misty Step, Fly, Spider Climb

Imagine trying to cross a pit or ravine trying to get a rope across, or just cast: Dimension Door, Misty Step, Fly, Spider Climb, Wall of Force, Wall of Stone.

Imagine trying to get somewhere far away by riding there, or just cast: Teleport.

Imagine trying to block a passage building a barricade, or just cast: Wall of Force, Wall of Stone

And contrast this with the pathetic level fighter 20 which has no higher movement speed unless he specifically spent feats to do so, something which a caster does not need to do. I mean no wizard will skip out on Dimension Door, Misty Step and Fly.

The Echo Knight is sort of good at some of these because of the teleportation ability. Champion? Absolute trash.

 

[Scribe]

Champion? Absolute trash.

Remind me, the most popular Class/Subclass again?

 

[Incenjucar]

Anyway, the overall idea that magical should be better than mundane is whatever. If a type if character is better than another, then the lesser character should have compounded levels so that they're remaining equal regardless.