Captured holy implements?

[Ryujin]

The most I think on this, the more I come to the comclusion that tranfering the enchantment to your own god's holy symbol is the way to go. The idea is well grounded in the game mechanics, and works on a narrative level as it should.

Do it!

That's the way that I figure it. Magic itself isn't inherently good or evil in 4e, anymore than electricity is. It's a power source. You can either light a street with it, or fry someone with it. It's your choice.

 

[DrSpunj]

I did exactly this in our campaign just a few sessions ago. The BBEG started a nasty necrotic ritual with his Symbol of Despair used as the focus under the sacrificial victim. The party managed to save the victim and undue the ritual before it killed anyone, the cleric found the holy symbol but couldn't identify which god it was associated with. When they got back to town the cleric joined 3 other priests in a "reconsecration" ritual that turned it into a Symbol of Hope dedicated to the cleric's god. Since reclaiming these magical items from the _FORCES OF EVIL_ is something all priests & churches of Good faiths are really hot on the 25 gp donation was waived for the mechanical Transfer Enchantment ritual. Worked very well.

 

[Snotboy]

If you need more of a fluff explanation, you can say that a holy symbol is infused with a divine substance/energy/essence that is valuable to all gods and pantheons, and that a symbol can be attuned to a new faith over a short or extended rest.

If you don't want that, you can say symbols held by evil npc clerics are focuses that not only augment their foul magics, but are also grafted to their very soul as a mark of their god's ownership. Taking a symbol from them doesn't sever the bond the symbol has with them, though they might be extremely irritated. Killing them renders the symbol inert lump of otherwise mundane material.

You can fluff away anything! It just takes imagination.

 

[Mr. Wilson]

Reading your OP, I'd say disenchanting the evil Holy Symbols is your best bet. It's a slight treasure hit, but as long as the DM places enough treasure, you should be fine.

 

[Nail]

Worked very well.

Agreed! (...said as a player in that game) It's my inspiration for my stand on this issue now.

 

[Engilbrand]

My group would just transfer it now. Before the Transfer Enchantment ritual, I think the idea was that there would be a brief "rededication" ritual- which is something that I've seen mention A LOT on these boards by different people- and then just play. It's an instrument of divine intervention. Why wouldn't a rededication also allow you to change its shape?

 

[cmbarona]

My campaign centers around cults and such as well. My campaign is also monotheistic, so there's basically saints and heretics instead of gods. Whenever I "drop" a heretic's holy symbol into a treasure parcel, I allow the user's church to consecrate and reforge the materials free of charge. It makes things a lot simpler on my part. Until then, I won't allow it to be used properly; however, I try to make "until then" very brief.

If I don't want holy symbols to be part of the loot, then I just won't put any magic holy symbols in there. Their enemies can wield strong magic without channeling it through a magic item, just like the PCs can.

 

[eryndel]

The question is, from a meta standpoint, are the implements treasure or not? Meaning, are they simply set dressing for the bad guys (like gear on creatures) which isn't necessarily intended to be filling the coffers of the heroes? Or are these magic items that are a part of the treasure reward system (parcels or what have you) inherent in the game. If it's simply set dressing, then the DM really isn't doing anything wrong by not letting you have access to it, nor does it throw anything terribly out of balance.

In game, this could be explained in many ways, including that the items are so foully corrupted as to be incapable of good uses. Perhaps, a small reward in the form of residuum could be had by destroying the item (through a Disenchant ritual or similar.)

If these items are included as part of the reward system, where he's not handing out magic items because he's giving you these implements you can't use, yeah... that's being kind of a heel. Additional items should be thrown in to supplement the characters or a disparity might develop between the power of the heroes and the challenges they face.

It really all depends on what the DM is trying to do here.